penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21372
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Jack Montague 03-06-16 11:03 AM - Post#203589
In response to Jeff2sf
Jeff--I hear you but there must be a way to be quietly supportive of your teammate without casting aspersions on the victim (whether alleged or real).
Belatedly, our country is waking up to the tremendous problems of sexual abuse in the country and especially on college campuses. For far too long a significant proportion of women have been victims here, and the institutions that govern our society (including those of the university) have exacerbated this issue and remedies for ameliorating it.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4923
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-07-16 11:27 PM - Post#203723
In response to penn nation
PN is regurgitating a claim that has been exploded. In fact there is no new epidemic of sexual assault on U.S. women, and college campuses are not more dangerous than anywhere else for women in that demographic. Politically motivated bodies and individuals have been advancing that thesis and made great headway through repetition in convincing many well-meaning people, but the data fall apart upon any kind of critical analysis. There has been a transformation of courtship conventions and an increase in students equating intoxication with relaxation, both of which have increased the ambivalence and confusion around sexual behavior on campus.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-08-16 08:26 AM - Post#203738
In response to SRP
Good luck to you with that stance, BRO.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Jack Montague 03-08-16 11:29 AM - Post#203754
In response to SRP
We don't know whether Montague is innocent or guilty.
We can be reasonably sure that old white guys pontificating about changes in courtship rituals on college campuses is misguided gibberish.
Edited by TheLine on 03-08-16 11:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2822
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Jack Montague 03-08-16 12:39 PM - Post#203765
In response to TheLine
I'm sick of hearing about your undisclosed, alleged sex crimes, Jack Montague.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Jack Montague 03-09-16 03:43 PM - Post#203972
In response to Tiger69
Meanwhile, Cornell basketball learns what disclosed, criminal sex charges look like.
Also a Yale recruiting target.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-09-16 03:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4923
Reg: 02-04-06
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Re: Jack Montague 03-09-16 09:23 PM - Post#204015
In response to TheLine
Since my information about these topics comes primarily from publicly accessible journalism and social science conducted by younger people, many of them women, does that suddenly make my views valid? No. So my age and race are similarly irrelevant in invalidating them.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21372
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-09-16 09:47 PM - Post#204020
In response to SRP
I'm really surprised that you didn't add that "these alleged victims bring this upon themselves". I mean if you're going to be a reactionary then at least have the sense to fire all of your weapons.
PN is regurgitating a claim that has been exploded. In fact there is no new epidemic of sexual assault on U.S. women, and college campuses are not more dangerous than anywhere else for women in that demographic. Politically motivated bodies and individuals have been advancing that thesis and made great headway through repetition in convincing many well-meaning people, but the data fall apart upon any kind of critical analysis. There has been a transformation of courtship conventions and an increase in students equating intoxication with relaxation, both of which have increased the ambivalence and confusion around sexual behavior on campus.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Jack Montague 03-10-16 01:55 PM - Post#204096
In response to penn nation
While I'm sure you can find supposed credible research claiming courtship rituals are more confused now, I'm finding it hard to believe that today's rituals are any more confused than when I was a college student in the '80s.
Again, I don't want to jump to conclusions on any specific case. However I'm not buying "I was confused about courtship rituals" as a defense.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4923
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-10-16 08:19 PM - Post#204156
In response to TheLine
Wow, some of you shellbacks haven't heard about hooking up and the rarity of "dating" or couple formation on campus. Need to hit like a decade of posts over at Slate.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2708
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Re: Jack Montague 03-10-16 08:28 PM - Post#204157
In response to TheLine
I'm so confused:
The "courtship ritual" I don't understand is when the other four teammates on the court congratulate the player who just bricked a free throw!
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4923
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-11-16 02:18 AM - Post#204175
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Point shaving joy?
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1357
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Jack Montague 03-11-16 12:09 PM - Post#204194
In response to TheLine
We can be reasonably sure that old white guys pontificating about changes in courtship rituals on college campuses is misguided gibberish.
I highly doubt this incident has anything to do with courtship.
Either that, or way more people in college than we suspected were actually serious about pursuing marriage on Saturdays.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-11-16 07:48 PM - Post#204236
In response to sparman
Oh, I agree. Was just using SRP's term.
If there's more consensual... uh... hooking up nowadays, or at least in theory, wouldn't that make it easier to find a situation that didn't involve a rape accusation?
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4009
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-12-16 09:51 PM - Post#204307
In response to TheLine
Before or after?
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mmp629
Junior
Posts: 259
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-14-16 01:35 PM - Post#204429
In response to Old Bear
The plot thickens:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story/_...
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Jack Montague 03-14-16 01:44 PM - Post#204431
In response to mmp629
Just in time to ensure this will be the only story you'll hear about Yale in the days leading up to their game.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-14-16 01:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-14-16 02:28 PM - Post#204437
In response to Chip Bayers
At least the NCAA Committee did Yale a favor by matching them up with a school that has a worse sexual assault record than Yale?
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1174
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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03-14-16 02:58 PM - Post#204442
In response to Penn94
Now Hufnagel's been canned for alleged sexual misconduct.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article /C...
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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03-14-16 04:20 PM - Post#204449
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Interesting on Hufnagel, a guy many Penn fans wanted as head coach.
As for the Montague story, it's quite the coincidence that this comes out a day after the sports world is talking about the 30 for 30 on Duke Lacrosse.
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