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Username Post: Jack Montague        (Topic#18754)
roarlionroar 
Freshman
Posts: 41

Age: 21
Reg: 02-05-14
02-22-16 05:10 PM - Post#202456    

Is there any word of him coming back? If he does not return, that is a huge loss for the Bulldogs as it thins out an already short rotation.

 
OneIvyOne 
Junior
Posts: 200

Loc: West
Reg: 08-28-13
02-24-16 04:36 PM - Post#202559    
    In response to roarlionroar

He has withdrawn from school for personal reasons. I feel bad for the Senior.

 
LionFan 
Senior
Posts: 386

Reg: 11-07-06
02-25-16 08:46 AM - Post#202598    
    In response to OneIvyOne

Must be difficult for Montague to withdraw so near the promised land, both academically and athletically. Not to belittle that, what does the substitution of Dallier into the starting lineup do to the Bulldogs' performance and chances? He wasn't pulling big minutes before having to step up.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4896

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-25-16 09:42 AM - Post#202603    
    In response to LionFan

We won't get enough evidence to test this with the paltry sum of games remaining, but to the extent that Dallier can play 30-35 minutes with little drop off in his own abilities after crossing 20 or so mins a game, Yale might be okay here. The Bulldogs will be different (Dallier is more defense than offense vs. Montague) but the expectation is that Dallier could replace Montague's production net on both ends pretty closely.

The biggest issue for Yale is what happens when Dallier (4.6 fouls per 40) and Victor (4.7 fouls per 40) get into foul trouble in a tight game. While Dallier might keep the curtain up, at this point the VORP of Victor and Dallier over the rest of the Yale guards is massive, so the more minutes Victor and Dallier can't play, the odds of losing will rise significantly.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4252

Reg: 11-22-04
02-25-16 09:56 AM - Post#202605    
    In response to mrjames

I assume that Ghani couldn't go against Penn, as well, presumably because of the broken nose. So not only do they have a huge dropoff after their top 3 guards (without Montague), but the guy who would have moved from 5th guard to 4th guard is dinged up as well.

I'm a little surprised Jones hasn't tried playing Mason and Copeland together. He's shown a willingness to play small with Mason and Montague together, so it can't just be a question of size. I assume defense is the issue.

Another answer is to go the opposite direction and play big. Sears is a dynamic player who can do a lot of different things. Jones could play Sears, Downey, and Sherrod at the same time. I assume that would take Sears away from the oboards, though, which i guess might neutralize one of Yale's big advantages.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 869

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-25-16 10:59 AM - Post#202612    
    In response to SomeGuy

I observed that Yale seemed to play differently against Harvad than they would if Montague was playing. That's inevitable when you lose one of your two ball handlers (he's second in assists) and leading 3 point shooter.

It's not a question of whether Dallier can fill in without a drop off. Yale is just not as versatile and deep. Bottom line, Yale shot 5-29 from 3 in its last three games, 1-12 against Princeton.

Yale is still very good, just not as complete a team as it was.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4252

Reg: 11-22-04
02-25-16 12:01 PM - Post#202616    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Yes, I think Yale needs to make choices now where they won't be as complete. I think with Dallier they kind of choose to go with defense, but they lose ball-handling and the ability to get clear for 3s (though when Dallier gets looks, he hits at a similar percentage to Montague) compared to Montague.

I think due to the short rotation there has been a tendency to underestimate Yale's versatility -- their rotation of 7 with Montague did a lot of different things well and could show different looks, size mixes, etc. But you take out that one key guy and it starts to look very different.

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 525

Reg: 10-20-14
03-01-16 10:24 PM - Post#203115    
    In response to SomeGuy

Troubling stuff in New Haven - http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/01/baske tbal...

 
Bears03 
Freshman
Posts: 55

Reg: 02-23-12
03-04-16 09:48 PM - Post#203426    
    In response to rbg

Very troubling indeed, but not limited to New Haven. The way college campuses deal with sexual allegations is unacceptable in this day and age, which unfortunately this appears to be.

In my humble opinion, the School has an obligation to educate, and the police have an obligation to protect and serve that community. When the school tries to overstep into legal matters they mainly choose to suppress information, then act in a self-serving reactionary way with little to no due process for either side which often results in an unsatisfactory result for both parties but protects the reputation of the institution.

In this particular incident without knowing any more information than has hit the press I can't help but feel for the kid that has dedicated his entire life to these last few games on the road to the Tourney which were taken away from him and won't ever be given back even if his name is eventually cleared. In the meantime opposing factions are wasting no time implying his guilt through posters all over campus that have now made international press while any alleged accuser remains completely anonymous.

This board in particular is filled with Ivy alumni that have all been through a similar four years, and it's a shame that we haven't been able to advocate for a more transparent process, at least equal to our justice system's innocent until proven guilty.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3247

Reg: 02-04-06
03-05-16 01:38 AM - Post#203443    
    In response to Bears03

Bears03 makes a lot of sense here. It's hard to see how universities are better qualified than the criminal justice system to deal with sex crimes. And there is some evidence that Yale specifically has some issues:
http://www.mindingthecampus.org/author/kcjohnson/

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1401
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 67
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-16 04:06 PM - Post#203487    
    In response to SRP

Thanks for the link. Utterly fascinating discussion.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3560

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-16 07:39 PM - Post#203515    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Yeah so I think it's kind of interesting that a bunch of old guys are deciding what's what with the delicate situation of sexual assault given a bunch of old guys basically have gotten us into this situation to begin with.

Here's what I know:
1. At some point on some college campus, some guy has sexually assaulted a woman and gotten away with it even when it's reported because of he said/she said.
2. At some point a woman has probably falsely accused a guy of sexual assault on a campus.
3. Some how, whatever the ratios are, the great majority of sexual assaults seem to go unpunished.
4. That is probably really really frustrating for women.
5. If I was Montague's friend, I'd probably want to show support for him.
6. If I was the woman's friend, I'd want to show support for her.
7. Most of the fans shouting Montague's name last week were probably not close personal friends.
8. That had to really really suck for the woman.

Innocent till proven guilty actually doesn't work for most sexual assault cases. I'm not proposing we throw that idea out. Not at all. But he said-she said has basically tilted to he said always wins.

Unless there are two or more she's. See Bill Cosby.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3305

Reg: 11-23-04
03-05-16 08:14 PM - Post#203525    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Can someone tell me why Colleges, not just the Ivies, think they are better dealing with sexual assault that law enforcement?

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3560

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-16 08:35 PM - Post#203533    
    In response to Old Bear

Bro,

http://knowyourix.org/why-schools-handle-se xual-vi...

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-a ssault-prosec...

http://feministing.com/2014/04/11/stop-telli ng-sur...

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9903

Reg: 12-02-04
03-05-16 08:35 PM - Post#203534    
    In response to Old Bear

They certainly don't think they're "better", other than being better at covering it up.

Colleges do everything they can not to publicize this stuff for fear of tarnishing their precious brand. When you combine this with the athletics department, which in most places is a cash cow, the incentive is even stronger to whitewash and protect.

At least the Obama Administration has now compelled colleges to release data on this, which for too long they've been holding off on doing.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3560

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-16 08:35 PM - Post#203535    
    In response to Jeff2sf

And I don't even really buy into all of this. But it's like this is the first time you all are hearing about these concepts.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9903

Reg: 12-02-04
03-05-16 08:46 PM - Post#203536    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Kind of sweet though that this Montague story is going to be a huge distraction from Yale's winning the Ivies. The Yale players should come under a lot of scrutiny for their behavior over the past few days.

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 893

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-16 10:59 PM - Post#203565    
    In response to penn nation

Apart from the work by which you have all come to know me, I serve as a member of the board of directors of a Crime Victims' Center serving a county with a population of approximately 450,000 persons. Crime victims' centers may counsel all victims of crime or may be specialized as a rape crisis center.

A college sexual assault victim (or any sexual assault victim) is best served by a professional sexual assault counselor working under the auspices of a rape crisis center which is independent of both the university and the police. The counselor can properly advise the victim, help her make an informed choice regarding the criminal justice system and assist her regarding other types of victim support.

I do not speak for all crime victims' centers. However, it is certainly our view that the criminal justice system, for all its flaws, tends to treat victims better than campus judicial processes which do not afford basic protections to victims such as rape shield laws.

Disclosure of campus crime statistics is not new. On the federal level it goes back at least 25 years to the Clery Act.

And while the stereotype of a college campus protecting its reputation by concealing sexual assault is based on reality, overcompensating with campus-based kangaroo courts destroys public faith in the credibility of victims.



 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3247

Reg: 02-04-06
03-06-16 01:09 AM - Post#203568    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Stuart Suss again makes sense. Contrary to Jeff's assertion I've been following this issue for years. What has changed of late is that the Department of Education's Office of Equal Opportunity has issued, without any hearings or comment. a ukase that schools must a) lower their evidentiary standards for conviction in a sexual misconduct case from 'clear and convincing" to "preponderance of evidence" (50.00001% likelihood of guilt leads to conviction), b) the accused should not be given an opportunity to confront, much less cross-examine, the accuser, and c) systems that have a designated person act as investigator, prosecutor, jury, and judge are preferred if a school wants to avoid OEO heat. Failure to comply leads to an enhanced risk of embarrassing investigations, government lawsuits, and possible termination of all federal funding under Title IX. When Harvard knuckled under, a boatload of its law school faculty publicly opposed the new system. A driving force in writing the protest letter was a woman who pioneered pro-accuser reforms in the criminal law on rape who believes that the lack of due process will be an engine of injustice and resentment.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3560

Reg: 11-22-04
Jack Montague
03-06-16 06:42 AM - Post#203570    
    In response to SRP

PN, This is where I part company - they were supporting their friend. They basically don't believe Montague could do what he's accused of and feel Yale wronged him. That would be very upsetting to them. They probably didn't voice this quite right but that'st he challenge.

Stu and SRP, you make a lot of sense here. But I think we'd all agree it hasn't quite turned out well for women in putting their faith in the criminal justice system. I can definitely see the allure of wanting to try something else even as it could (will?) end up backfiring. The main problem I see is that actually in most cases the evidence will come out not 50.0001 but 50.0000%.

 
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