thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-05-16 10:18 PM - Post#203547
In response to puband09
I take that a lot of the negativity is coming from the frustration on being " so close but no cigar". If the Tigers beat Penn ( just saying) they became within a rim roll of a share of the Ivy title.
Back in November, I don't think that anyone would have believed that if the Tigers lost just 2 Ivy games that they wouldn't be champs.
I salute the kids this year and the coaching staff. Hopefully it's on to a long NIT run.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-05-16 10:19 PM - Post#203548
In response to gokinsmen
Give us Justin Sears and we are the Ivy champs.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21276
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-05-16 10:22 PM - Post#203549
In response to thelaird
Oh please. You can thank the refs for gifting Princeton the victory at the Palestra, where they were thoroughly outplayed. And a narrow escape at Columbia, to say the least.
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thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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03-05-16 10:23 PM - Post#203550
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Plus, we got to see probably one of the all-time great games in Princeton history with Columbia. A truly season to remember.
On another note, Yale will probably not get a 12 seed like I've seen Princeton would have gotten. What seed do you think they deserve?
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-05-16 10:26 PM - Post#203551
In response to penn nation
I didn't follow all 14 of Yale's games with a magnifying glass, but they very nearly lost to Dartmouth last weekend—a team we handled both times.
Winning 14 games (or near it) is very hard; I don't think gokinsmen is arguing that. It always seems like the difference between a good team and a championship team are whether or not they can put away the opponents who stick around til the end. Princeton didn't do that yesterday despite many opportunities late in the game.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-05-16 10:28 PM - Post#203553
In response to puband09
Not sure how the Montague situation affects the analysis, Yale was 7-1 without him and 5-1 on the road.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-05-16 10:29 PM - Post#203554
In response to puband09
You can't say that this team showed poor end-of-game performance overall. They were generally clutch down the stretch. When they got into trouble, it was in first halves.
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thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-05-16 10:30 PM - Post#203555
In response to penn nation
Hmmm, didn't think I mentioned the ref, but after a month and and a half, I'd think you would let that go. Out here in the desert west we have two choices, either meditation, or a shot and a beer, then rant for 15 minutes and move on. Personally I use the latter method. 
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-05-16 10:34 PM - Post#203557
In response to thelaird
Princeton was only "thoroughly outplayed" at Penn if you think that a slower, weaker team should be allowed to foul with impunity. Otherwise, not.
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thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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03-05-16 10:36 PM - Post#203558
In response to SRP
Look at the scoreboard is my only reply.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21276
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-05-16 11:19 PM - Post#203561
In response to thelaird
You were the one who raised the "gosh, we would have only have been a 'rim roll' away" from an Ivy title.
Just wanted to point out reality to you.
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thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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Re: Dartmouth II
03-06-16 12:50 AM - Post#203567
In response to penn nation
Gosh, the reality is you should go back to your penn side of the board or the refs board  and I'll stay here with friends.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2818
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-06-16 02:18 AM - Post#203569
In response to thelaird
I like this team even though things didn't turn out quite as we wished this season. They played hard and lived up to all expectations but our own.. Gokinsmen, I think that you are being a bit harsh in your criticism. Harvard was a huge underachiever this season -- even without Chambers. We had the misfortune to play them on one of their finer nights when their talent produced and Steeves had a truly extraordinary evening. We still came painfully close. Our three players on the floor under our basket at the end of the game spoke volumes about the disappointment of this loss to the team. Let's not get into the habit of reflexively bashing our own guys every time we don't win (as do a few fans on another board). To state the obvious: there are two teams on the floor. Both can try hard and play well. But, only one can win.
As for the recent caveat on trolling, we have one especially annoying @ss above. He(?) has contributed nothing amusing, witty or interesting to this board. Best to ignore him while enjoying the flavor of his sour grapes. Eventually, he will return to the Penn boards and bother his fellow alums.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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03-06-16 10:05 AM - Post#203583
In response to Tiger69
Princeton should finish the season at 12-2, outscoring the league by 11-12 points per game. That's a championship-caliber season -- it just came in a year when Yale had one as well.
Criticizing a coach or team for not going 13-1 in the toughest overall Ivy League of the modern era does not seem very fair.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1348
Reg: 12-08-04
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03-06-16 10:52 AM - Post#203588
In response to whitakk
I'm willing to assume the criticism is mostly the product of short term disappointment. I don't see how anyone can say the team did not perform well this season.
Turning to the immediate issues, in Kenpom ratings Princeton is nestled between Oregon State and Colorado, both of which are projected to make the NCAAs, but with a much lower SOS. It would be nice to think they get a 2d ivy bid but I would be shocked if that happens. Frankly it would not surprise me if they get left out of the NIT, but perhaps I'm being overly cynical.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-06-16 11:16 AM - Post#203592
In response to whitakk
I agree that there is no reason to criticize MH; he did a great job with what he had. When Brase was hurt, I was thinking we could lose 4-6 games in the league.
My only long term problem with Henderson is his inability to recruit a true center with low post offensive and defensive ability. This seems to be a problem he experienced previously with Carmody at Northwestern. He is able to recruit guards and small forwards in abundance.
Next year Harvard returns Edosomwan, and brings in Chris Lewis 6'8" 240, and Robert Baker 6'9" 190. Yale brings in Jordan Bruner 6'9" 190. Someone needs to be able to defend them, and ideally score over them.
Brase will be strong and is a hard worker, but not a great shot blocker, nor does he score well with his back to the basket. Miller is hardly a wide body. Brennan is not a low post player. Bramlage is only 6'7". From his own description, Will Gladson is a stretch 4.
I keep hoping MH will recruit a talented low post player to compete with the Harvard bigs.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-06-16 12:35 PM - Post#203598
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
6-9 190 doesn't strike me as D-I ready. But the point is right about getting bigs - hopefully it's a problem of recruiting them not a problem developing them.
Post players are hard to find - and Princeton doesn't have a big man coach any more. In truth, the way Princeton plays now, I think it's more important on the defensive/rebounding end. Offensively it can work with a couple of stretch 4s.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-06-16 12:58 PM - Post#203599
In response to umbrellaman
I have a somewhat different view as I believe that miller will continue to improve and have a strong senior year. When the tigers need to go big defensively they can use both miller and Hans. The lack of a 2nd big man will hurt them this year if they play in the nit as they need two guys with height and the ability to rebound. Next year coach will have much greater flexibility with Hans as a defender against power forwards.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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03-06-16 01:01 PM - Post#203600
In response to umbrellaman
Anyone who suggests that Henderson and his team are "chokers" ought not be taken seriously. Henderson coached around his team's only weakness as well as could be imagined. Zena made us pay for it on Friday, as Sears and Sherrod did in New Haven and DNH almost did at The Palestra. Harvard caught us trying to front Zena near the end of the game and made a great pass over the top. Even after that we still had a chance. If anything, the Tigers overachieved this season and I am exceedingly proud of their results. To come within two or three possessions of an unbeaten season without Brase is simply phenomenal. To have everyone back, including Brase, is a position in which every Ivy coach would love to find himself.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-06-16 01:45 PM - Post#203603
In response to umbrellaman
6-9 190 doesn't strike me as D-I ready. But the point is right about getting bigs - hopefully it's a problem of recruiting them not a problem developing them.
Post players are hard to find - and Princeton doesn't have a big man coach any more. In truth, the way Princeton plays now, I think it's more important on the defensive/rebounding end. Offensively it can work with a couple of stretch 4s.
I wasn't proposing that all of the bigs I mentioned are automatically D1 ready; just that our task in the post is greater next year even with Sears graduating. Some of the less muscular Harvard recruits have offensive skills that will take them to the hoop.
Yes defense and rebounding are more important than offense: look at our success with Brendan Connolly.
Miller showed great improvement this year over last. But improvement from junior to senior year is much less common.
Your point about no longer having a big man coach is a good one. Can we get Levy back? Maybe double his salary!
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