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Username Post: 2017 Recruit        (Topic#18794)
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 09:19 AM - Post#204622    
    In response to Mike Porter

I don't think what's publicly available has much to do with the reality of 2017 at this point. On Verbal Commits Harvard has exactly zero recruits listed. Princeton has 1 and Yale has 21 (Penn has 11).

2017 actual recruiting starts in April with the onset of the AAU season. The real work is done in April and then in July with most of the best players narrowing down their choices over summer and verbally committing somewhere in the September-November time frame.

It is very early for 2017 and what's "publicly available" means little to nothing right now.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-16-16 10:15 AM - Post#204634    
    In response to PennFan10

The recruiting cycle has moved forward a lot, but not enough that I'd be concerned not having a commit or public interest from 2017 recruits yet.

2017 is a big opportunity for the league. Harvard is probably only going to take 3 or 4 kids max. It's already got the ones it wants in its scopes, and many are not crossovers to the rest of the league. That could mean open season on a bunch of 3- and 4-star kids to stock a variety of different Ivies. On the flip side, whiffing on the 2017 class could be a breakpoint in go-forward competitiveness in this league in the near future.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 10:56 AM - Post#204637    
    In response to mrjames

I don't see any evidence the cycle has moved forward. Certainly these coaches all have their targets for 2017. They determined those last July and into the fall. Most coaches were out last fall in open gyms and prior to their conference seasons attending games. But that process hasn't changed in several years.

Once they have their targets, coaches have been actively texting/calling them and trying to get them to come on unofficial visits througout their seasons. Now that most of the HS seasons have finished the AAU slate starts in April and college coaches can refine their targets and source new ones as they see who has taken a jump in their development.

April AAU is huge for recruits and schools.

 
91Quake 
Masters Student
Posts: 434

Reg: 11-22-04
03-16-16 11:35 AM - Post#204641    
    In response to PennFan10

Mike can defend himself but I think this is just a question of time frame. I read that comment from Mike and others who have talked about the shift in the recruiting cycle is relative to 10 or 20 years ago when the coaches were not texting the recruits because it did not exist. I do not believe is was a reference to the past few years.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 12:05 PM - Post#204646    
    In response to 91Quake

To be fair, the notion of "publicly available" information on recruiting wasn't available until the last few years either. My original comments were in response to Mike Porter who expressed concern over the state of Penn recruiting for 2017. It's just too early to be concerned (or happy).

Mike may have interpreted my original reply as demonstrating the recruiting cycle for 2017 doesn't start until spring/summer. That's why I added the second post about last summer and fall being the initial opportunities for juniors to be identified.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-16-16 02:02 PM - Post#204658    
    In response to PennFan10

Yeah, I guess my impression comes from when the commitments have started rolling in both for the league and nationally. Harvard got three of its 2016 recruits by the end of April 2015 and another couple over the summer. It only got its final two of seven during the normal "early" recruiting months of Sept - Nov.

I remember back when getting a junior year commitment would have been unheard of and now it's pretty commonplace.

While I agree that we mostly still see alignment targets with schools over the junior-to-senior summer, such that not being mentioned with most junior prospects isn't a huge concern, if you're interested in being in on the Top 100-150 prospects, that timeframe has shifted forward. At both Rivals and Scout, nearly 20% of the 2017 class is committed, which is crazy.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 02:14 PM - Post#204662    
    In response to mrjames

I don't think the Ivy's are going to consistently get top 100 players in the near future. There are really 10-15 players a year that get to pick their own school. The rest have to go through the "dating game" and find the right fit.

To be clear you said 20% of the class of 2017 is committed. That's for the top 150 on Rivals and Scout right? That's a very different number than the entire 2017 class. While there are certainly commits from players outside those rankings, you are talking about 20-25 players in the country from those lists.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 02:21 PM - Post#204663    
    In response to PennFan10

The other point that is eminently clear, as you say last year Harvard had 3 commitments by April and currently they list zero recruits on Verbal Commits for 2017. So obviously the information that is publicly available doesn't reflect the reality.

Either way, we would all agree there are aggressive recruiting efforts going on for the 2017 class since late last summer (texts, calls, unofficial visits, etc).

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4127

Reg: 11-22-04
03-16-16 03:53 PM - Post#204670    
    In response to PennFan10

My guess is that Harvard's philosophy about publicity has changed. I think initially there was a push under Amaker to be very public about who Harvard was pursuing, in an effort to get their name out there associated with higher level recruits.

Now that Harvard is landing those recruits, I think they are more reticent about making it abundantly obvious who they are involved with.

That's just a guess as to why Verbal Commits used to have everyone under the sun for Harvard in past years, and nobody this year (while it has reversed for Yale).

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4127

Reg: 11-22-04
03-16-16 03:57 PM - Post#204671    
    In response to PennFan10

Not sure how this applies to the arguments being made, but we do have 2 of the 3 Ivy commits for 2017 so far.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-16-16 04:33 PM - Post#204673    
    In response to SomeGuy

I'm not sure why Verbal Commits doesn't have anyone Harvard is pursuing, but many of the top Harvard targets are pretty public. There was an article about Wendell Carter and Mo Bamba's Harvard interest. Lots of stuff on Twitter about Jaron Faulds' visit. More there on its visits to see guards Mario Haskett, Matt Beachler and Jamal Johnson. There's probably 15 to 20 kids that I've seen Harvard being reported to be involved with in the 2017 class.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-16-16 04:34 PM - Post#204674    
    In response to PennFan10

I do think that the Ivies will continue to get Top 100-150 talent going forward. Last year, two teams nabbed four-star guys and that didn't include Penn or Princeton. Not sure why it would be more likely to stop than to expand to those traditional powers.

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 529

Reg: 11-29-04
03-16-16 06:56 PM - Post#204679    
    In response to mrjames

Just wondering - how many 4 star players has the league gotten in the last 20 years or so? I realize Harvard got some good ones recently. Any others that people can recall?

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-16-16 07:15 PM - Post#204680    
    In response to Penndemonium

Jordan Bruner in the 2016 class for Yale. The 4-star thing is a new concept.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 09:00 PM - Post#204707    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
I do think that the Ivies will continue to get Top 100-150 talent going forward. Last year, two teams nabbed four-star guys and that didn't include Penn or Princeton. Not sure why it would be more likely to stop than to expand to those traditional powers.




I totally agree and I'm on records it's you about the inevitability of at large bids for the Ivy, despite the conference tourney. If we are a top 10 conference with regular 4 star players picking various schools, the victories over top 50 schools will come and the at large bids will follow.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
03-16-16 09:03 PM - Post#204710    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
My guess is that Harvard's philosophy about publicity has changed. I think initially there was a push under Amaker to be very public about who Harvard was pursuing, in an effort to get their name out there associated with higher level recruits.

Now that Harvard is landing those recruits, I think they are more reticent about making it abundantly obvious who they are involved with.

That's just a guess as to why Verbal Commits used to have everyone under the sun for Harvard in past years, and nobody this year (while it has reversed for Yale).



This could be part of the reason but Verbal Commita doesn't just take info from schools, they often get it from the players as well as social media. As Mike says it's not a secret. So if there are things out there on Harvard recruits VC is not picking it up for some reason.


 
NathanVC 
Freshman
Posts: 9

Age: 22
Reg: 03-17-16
03-17-16 01:57 AM - Post#204758    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
  • SomeGuy Said:
My guess is that Harvard's philosophy about publicity has changed. I think initially there was a push under Amaker to be very public about who Harvard was pursuing, in an effort to get their name out there associated with higher level recruits.

Now that Harvard is landing those recruits, I think they are more reticent about making it abundantly obvious who they are involved with.

That's just a guess as to why Verbal Commits used to have everyone under the sun for Harvard in past years, and nobody this year (while it has reversed for Yale).



This could be part of the reason but Verbal Commita doesn't just take info from schools, they often get it from the players as well as social media. As Mike says it's not a secret. So if there are things out there on Harvard recruits VC is not picking it up for some reason.





Hello, this is Nathan LeClair from Verbal Commits. The reason we don't have any "offers" on the Harvard page is most likely because we haven't found any links or have been informed directly of any Harvard offers. The team pages are scholarship charts; interest is only expressed on individual profiles. It's possible that these players you listed as having interest have Harvard offers, but we have not been informed of them or they (players and/or staff) don't want it to be public knowledge. There are schools that keep offers on the DL; that could be the way the Harvard staff chooses to go about recruiting.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2816

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
03-17-16 10:31 AM - Post#204766    
    In response to NathanVC

Nathan-- thanks very much for the clarification. Question: is interest level a data point self-reported by the players?

On another note, I find it remarkable that somebody from VC is aware of our crappy little backwater discussion board.

 
NathanVC 
Freshman
Posts: 9

Age: 22
Reg: 03-17-16
03-18-16 01:19 PM - Post#204896    
    In response to Silver Maple

  • Silver Maple Said:
Nathan-- thanks very much for the clarification. Question: is interest level a data point self-reported by the players?

On another note, I find it remarkable that somebody from VC is aware of our crappy little backwater discussion board.



Interest level is often reported by players, but we're very wary on how we go about adding it to profiles. We consider interest as being invited to visit campus and/or daily (or near daily) contact with the staff. A generic letter, or something along those lines, is not interest.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1360
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 66
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
03-18-16 08:53 PM - Post#204944    
    In response to Silver Maple

  • Silver Maple Said:
our crappy little backwater discussion board.



I've never considered this discussion board that "little".

 
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