umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-10-16 12:16 PM - Post#204076
https://ivyleague.prestosports.com/information/gen...
Edited by umbrellaman on 03-10-16 12:19 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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03-10-16 12:35 PM - Post#204079
In response to umbrellaman
"add another milestone" which makes us just like everyone else.
Interesting that each team will have to play one less game to account for the tournament. If this lost game includes a chance to play a good team and get that RPI bump, couldn't it be a little counterproductive in the 2-bid scenario? Obviously if both teams are top 75 or so it's not a big deal, but it could have an impact, no?
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Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 12:35 PM - Post#204080
In response to umbrellaman
As I posted elsewhere:
Even Bill Carmody thinks this is wrong.
If Penn had defeated Princeton on Tuesday night, Penn and Harvard would have tied for 4th place and would have split the season series. How would they have decided which school was in the tournament and which school was out?
And Tuesday night women's game would have been rendered meaningless under this system.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 12:39 PM - Post#204081
In response to Stuart Suss
I'm glad we're trying something new. 14 games ain't 60. It's not like there isn't a lot of noise in 14 games.
Also, it will be FUN. I haven't had fun with penn basketball in 5 years.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 12:56 PM - Post#204083
In response to Jeff2sf
That's exactly right -- I think this will be fun.
I totally understand that there may be logical reasons against it. So what? I think this will often be more fun.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:25 PM - Post#204087
In response to Stuart Suss
I believe the next tie-breaker would be record versus the best team, then the team after and so on. Given that those would also be similar, I assume they would draw for the final spot. Unclear, though.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-10-16 01:31 PM - Post#204088
In response to SomeGuy
14 Game Tournament RIP.
Well, if we are approaching the point that teams could an at-large bid, then maybe this helps us get to the next level.
"Playoffs! Don't talk to me about playoffs!"
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:37 PM - Post#204089
In response to SomeGuy
Yeah, the fourth place finisher pulling the second upset in an empty arena, during most of the schools spring break but watched on ESPN 8 sounds like my kind of party fun.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32810
Reg: 11-21-04
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Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:41 PM - Post#204090
In response to umbrellaman
On the bright side, Penn has a possibility of getting to 4th next year given Yale and Columbia's graduation losses.
The season itself will mean much less to the victor. But a 4 game playoff is better than all 8--it's similar to pro league percentages that make the playoffs.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32810
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:44 PM - Post#204091
In response to palestra38
So does this mean that Princeton is giving up the post-winter vacation exams or is Penn going to play Princeton in December? They will no longer be able to play Tuesday in March.
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Albert08
Masters Student
Posts: 572
Reg: 08-21-10
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:45 PM - Post#204092
In response to palestra38
If they haven't already done so, Princeton and Penn need to revise their schedule next year to play both games in January. Otherwise, they will be at a disadvantage if they play on Tuesday, March 7, 2017, and the other teams complete their schedules on the previous weekend. I guess Princeton gets rid of the Division III game on its schedule after exams.
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Albert08
Masters Student
Posts: 572
Reg: 08-21-10
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:46 PM - Post#204094
In response to Albert08
Great minds think alike.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32810
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 01:50 PM - Post#204095
In response to Albert08
If they did, you guys never would have exams after vacation---I always thought that was cruel and unusual punishment. You can't truly enjoy winter break with your finals coming up.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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03-10-16 01:58 PM - Post#204097
In response to palestra38
I don't think the tournament is a terrible thing, but I'm sad we're losing some of the things that made the Ivy unique: http://www.nycbuckets.com/2016/03/pour-one-out- for...
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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03-10-16 02:10 PM - Post#204098
In response to whitakk
The worst part about this is that it's at the Palestra. Nothing against the gym--I've loved going to Penn-Princeton games there--but it's incredibly biased for more than one reason.
Even the ECAC Hockey Tournament gets a neutral site.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32810
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-10-16 02:14 PM - Post#204099
In response to puband09
Only if we get in.....Mike would know better but I can't imagine that it's much more than a 25% chance.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Ivy League Tournament - Official Announcement
03-10-16 02:17 PM - Post#204100
In response to mrjames
I believe the next tie-breaker would be record versus the best team, then the team after and so on. Given that those would also be similar, I assume they would draw for the final spot. Unclear, though.
Usually it's head to head for the two tied teams first, then it's record against the best teams in the league starting from the top. In the case of this year, they split and records from the top would have yielded another tie (if Penn had defeated Princeton).
I have seen some wacky tiebreakers beyond those normal criteria. Here is one example I found for another conference:
1. Head-to-head competition.
2. Record against team(s) above the tie beginning with the highest ranked team.
3. Record vs. team or teams in 3 rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera.
4. Road record against conference schools.
5. Record in their last seven conference games.
6. The point spread of the tied teams’ head-to head competition.
7. Coin toss
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Albert08
Masters Student
Posts: 572
Reg: 08-21-10
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03-10-16 02:19 PM - Post#204101
In response to puband09
The press release seems to indicate it's the Palestra for 2017, then they will explore other venues, though not clear what other venues would be available. But I agree it's not ideal, particularly on the women's side, since the Penn women will be favored next year to win the league, and then they host the tournament.
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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03-10-16 02:20 PM - Post#204102
In response to palestra38
Not just for Penn.
Let's say Princeton and Harvard make it one year. It'll be easier, cheaper and less fatiguing to get Princeton's team, band cheerleaders, student section, etc. to the Palestra than Harvard's.
Or worse, let's say Dartmouth makes the tournament next year. Their band is not going to make that trip, and very few students (or fans period) will show up.
The same obstacles exist for any potential venue, but Philadelphia is the furthest point south.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-10-16 02:22 PM - Post#204103
In response to Albert08
I am a fan of letting the team that won the league host, but then you get different sites for the men and women, which would be fine by me. It gives the winner of the 14 game schedule an extra, earned advantage.
Of course not all facilities are appropriate venues for such and event.
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