TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1871
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-16 11:15 PM - Post#204748
In response to thelaird
What about the no-look three with time running out in the air, can't defended against that...
Yup that was nuts. Came at the tail end of a great defensive stand too. A real heartbreaker...
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Vonsid
Sophomore
Posts: 143
Reg: 03-12-16
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-16-16 11:20 PM - Post#204749
In response to gokinsmen
As for the officiating, it was biased in terms of FTs/contact, but hey that happens. Unless you're Duke, you're gonna deal with that. No more excuses for an endless string of horrible choke jobs in big games.
If it weren't for Devin Cannady's individual magic touch, this season would really have been ugly and program-destroying.
I've been lurking here for 5 or so years. I signed up tonight to literally say that I can't stand your posts and negativity.
A new brand of basketball is being built at Princeton. High octane. MH has done a fantastic job of instituting the change and is finally getting to oversee his own players. HINT: We weren't even supposed to be in this position at the beginning of the season!!!
Nobody agrees with you that MH was the problem tonight.
Hats off to MH, BE, and the rest of the Tigers. I cannot wait for next year...it's going to be a lot of fun.
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thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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03-16-16 11:35 PM - Post#204752
In response to TigerFan
Of course Columbia could say the same thing......a great season to build on for the Tigers
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-16-16 11:41 PM - Post#204753
In response to gokinsmen
If you're criticizing Mitch for never quite winning the big one, you may not remember the number of tournament games almost won but ultimately lost under Pete Carril.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1871
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-16-16 11:41 PM - Post#204754
In response to Vonsid
Vonsid, welcome out of the shadows. And amen to you post. This year exceeded expectations and next year should be a hell of a lot of fun. Go Tigers!
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 469
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-16-16 11:42 PM - Post#204755
In response to Vonsid
Look the screw up by high basketball IQ Weisz is hard to take.
But I was amazed by the team's ability to withstand the speed and pressure by VT. I don't think that choking is the hallmark of Henderson's teams. I do think that compared to JTIII, and SJ he is an offensive coach, not a defensive one. And defense is less likely to go cold on road weekend - that is the secret of Yale's success - and for all the firepower that the Harvard teams had they were largely defense first squads.
So the run and gunning Tigers are fun to watch - but Championships are won with defense. Did see some great disruption of passing lanes in the second half, but losing Stephens to fouls on defense was a big turning point.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 12:06 AM - Post#204757
In response to umbrellaman
I believe that the Tigers have made improvement regarding how they defend during the past year and I believe that it is backed up by statistics. The players have demonstrated commitment to defense and rebounding.
They are small with Caruso and Stephens on the floor when they are playing big guys but Stephens clearly has defensive ability. Tonight, Brennan,Miller, Bell and other contested shots. The team does need more bulk and strength.
I agree that the next step includes taking defense to another level as Harvard will have multiple bigs next year. Yale has the benefit of Sears, Sherrod and Victor on the front line with size and strength and I would not be the least bit surprised if they compete against Baylor on the boards.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 08:20 AM - Post#204764
In response to Vonsid
Thank heavens you arrived. I thought it was just me. I don't know why kinsmen bothers to watch these kids at all. He surely has the right to his opinion, as I do. In my opinion kinsmen is an genius.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 09:03 AM - Post#204765
In response to JadwinGeorge
A friend of mine who is not a Tiger fan watched the game last night after seeing the Princeton/St. Joe's game earlier in the year. He accurately described the game as heart breaking and thought that the key play was the failed inbounds pass by Weisz with less than 30 seconds to play -- very surprising play by Weisz considering his track record throughout the year. He also thought that Brennan had sufficient time to catch Cannady's missed shot at the end of regulation and put it back in vs. trying to tip in -- possibly, due to his inexperience.
At the end of the day, he was very impressed with Princeton's athleticism and the back door cuts but thought that Princeton needs to develop an inside game rather than placing too much emphasis on 3 pt shots. Coaching staff does need to work with Miller and Brennan to get some type of interior offensive presence if at all possible.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2801
Reg: 11-23-04
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Virginia Tech 03-17-16 11:21 AM - Post#204769
In response to bradley
A tough way to end a season that certainly had some exciting moments -- it will be an especially difficult one for Spencer, who has WON so many games for us with the right play at the right time, to put behind him.
But, moving on. We have a great cast of hungry players returning who are also fun to watch. There's lots of work to be done to make this an even better team. It even appears that we have a slightly growing and younger fan base on this board who will, eventually, grow to understand that OGs like Gokinsmen and me are frustrated Tigers who are running out of time and are prone to use any self-deceiving superstition we can think of to get our Guys to bleed another win.
"Tune every heart ... ". It is going to be a looong offseason.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 11:22 AM - Post#204770
In response to bradley
We are very vulnerable to any team with a big man who can score inside/outside, and defend the paint: Stony Brook, St. Jo, now V Tech.
I don't think Miller will ever have that inside game you want, nor do I think Brennan is likely to develop one. Brase shooting the three ball is the only weapon that would have opened up the middle for Weisz et al.
FYI here is what they said after the game:
LeDay: “They didn’t run an offense necessarily at the end of the game. They were just going off the dribble and taking advantage of mismatches, and once we contained the dribble, we were good. We knew we could score on offense."
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 12:37 PM - Post#204773
In response to Tiger69
Tiger69, I have always been under the impression that gokinsmen is closer to my age than yours, haha!
I share in some of gokinsmen's frustration. We haven't been consistently good in over a decade. There have been flashes of goodness (SJ's final two years, and even this year), but we all know some level of consistency is what any good program needs.
During my first few years as a Tigers fan, I watched optimistically, hoping that each year might be the one where we turned the page and started winning (conference) championships again. After 11 years of waiting, I can't help but roll my eyes a bit when people mention things like our "program" or "legacy."
Unlike gokinsmen, I don't think MH shoulders all the blame. I think the Athl. Dept. needs to reevaluate its commitment to winning at men's basketball.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 12:40 PM - Post#204774
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
We are very vulnerable to any team with a big man who can score inside/outside, and defend the paint: Stony Brook, St. Jo, now V Tech
This has been our issue as long as I can remember - which, while not as long as it used to be, still predates Mitch.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 02:28 PM - Post#204781
In response to sparman
We are very vulnerable to any team with a big man who can score inside/outside, and defend the paint: Stony Brook, St. Jo, now V Tech
This has been our issue as long as I can remember - which, while not as long as it used to be, still predates Mitch.
So what you are saying is, you don't remember Chris Thomforde or Andy Rimol?
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IvyHoopsFan01
Freshman
Posts: 68
Age: 63
Reg: 10-28-14
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03-17-16 03:16 PM - Post#204783
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
I agree that this issue should be better addressed. MH would be smart to consider significantly tweaking his recruiting approach in the near future (especially after next season when the Tigers graduate a lot of talented seniors).
In past, the smaller Princeton teams could match up fairly well with other Ivies who typically played only one true post or big body forward player at a time combined with four guards/wing players. Harvard’s incoming freshman class will change the dynamic within the league due to their recruitment of four very athletic, huge wingspan and height recruits (Seth Towns 6’8â€, Chris Lewis 6’8â€, Robert Baker 6’9†and Henry Walsh 6’10â€) who will create tough match up issues for Princeton’s typical smaller (6’4†to 6’5â€), but athletic and skilled wing players. Moving forward, Harvard will probably have two athletic, immense wingspan players on the court at all times. Princeton should look to place higher priority on bringing in more 6’7†to 6’9†athletic forwards (like Yale’s new 4-star 6’9†Jordan Bruner) to better matchup with the Crimson and the Bulldogs. Along these lines, maybe MH will be able to secure Jarod Simmons of Cushing Academy, a big body 6’9†3-star recruit.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 03:28 PM - Post#204784
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Rimol, you have a point.
Would you say Chris Thomforde was an inside presence who would have been able to handle today's kind of big men?
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Virginia Tech 03-17-16 03:32 PM - Post#204785
In response to sparman
That's a really good question.
The game has changed so much, so I can't be sure. He was certainly quick, and a good defender. I suspect he would hold his own on defense and would be able to score with his short jumper on offense.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 469
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-17-16 03:37 PM - Post#204786
In response to IvyHoopsFan01
My sense is that post-Walters the Athletic Department seems to have recommitted itself to the Basketball program. One big difference is that the rest of the league has too. The days of on average winning every other championship are long gone. The program is competitive, we are continuing to attract good players, and looks to continue to contend for the title.
If Harvard and Yale are going to contend because of the enhanced financial aid, and if Donahue revives Penn - right there is half the league. Columbia, Cornell appear to be serious and I just don't know enough about Brown and Dartmouth.
But yeah, the team could use an athletic forward in the mold of a Kareem Maddox.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-17-16 04:08 PM - Post#204789
In response to umbrellaman
You described the perfect player, Kareem Maddox, that the Tigers needed this year and to a somewhat lesser degree next year with Brase's return although Maddox defended at a much higher level than Brase. Looking at the 1st half, Baylor could not dominate the boards against Yale but they would probably have dominated against the Tigers based on their size -- Stephens could simply not compete based on his size vs. Miller/Brennan.
My opinion is that Mitch absolutely needs to get Miller/Brennan and Brase on the floor at the same time next year not only against Harvard but big large non-conference teams if you want to compete at the Big Dance. Caruso can give you instant offense off the bench. Sears, Sherrod and Victor can compete and Makai Mason is ridiculous.
Do some critics now think that the Tigers impressive win against Yale at home was a step in the right direction???
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-17-16 04:10 PM - Post#204790
In response to IvyHoopsFan01
MH would be smart to consider significantly tweaking his recruiting approach in the near future (especially after next season when the Tigers graduate a lot of talented seniors).
But wasn't that the track record at Northwestern also? For YEARS Carmody/Henderson attracted tall skinny shooters who could not match up with the horses in the Big 10.
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