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Username Post: Kyle Smith to San Francisco        (Topic#18929)
umbrellaman 
Masters Student
Posts: 469
umbrellaman
Reg: 11-21-04
03-30-16 07:07 PM - Post#205555    
    In response to bradley

You look at mid-majors losing coaches after making their runs in the tournament - the good programs reload the coaches too. An up or out mentality isn't the worst thing for an Ivy program, if it can establish itself as a good situation for a promising young coach. I would have guessed the Henderson was more of the "lifer" type, but maybe that's why Brian Earl decided to hang on.

 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
03-30-16 09:53 PM - Post#205557    
    In response to umbrellaman

  • umbrellaman Said:
Meh - if the coach is good, they don't have to love him. If the coach is doing a good job, they don't love him or her, until years later.


Word.

Fran Dunphy comes to mind.


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
03-30-16 09:56 PM - Post#205558    
    In response to umbrellaman

Bruce Weber is a class act, but his annual salary exceeds $2,000,000 and his contract with Kansas State provides for a $2,500,000 buyout which is just too pricey for most schools including Columbia and any other Ivy.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
03-30-16 11:38 PM - Post#205561    
    In response to randal7

Seems like the response you got makes it pretty clear that one of the players liked him. That's 1-0. And that's in spite of feeling like Smith wasn't totally straight about his plans for the long haul.

That said, I suspect just about every coach has a player on the bench who doesn't particularly like him. How coaches interact with their players has changed a lot over time (IMO, for the better) -- just ask Coach Donahue at Penn about how his approach has changed. But you're still making a decision as to who is going to ride you for 4 years and push you to be the best player you can be. That push is going to make a couple of guys unhappy, particularly if they aren't playing. So I think you can always find somebody around the team who is unhappy, and if you listen to that guy (or guys) alone, you can get the impression that the players don't like the coach.

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 16147
Bison137
Reg: 01-23-06
03-31-16 12:26 AM - Post#205562    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
He took a program that was perhaps the worst situation in the country, with no league, virtually winless record and horrible facilites in a depressing location and made it a consistent winner. Frankly, I think he could make a bigger jump than Columbia, but if CU can get him, that would be an excellent choice.




I also like Engles a lot. Not sure about the last sentence however. He has interviewed for at least a couple of jobs that aren't higher level than Columbia - and failed to get them. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he were interested in Columbia and would take the job if offered.




 
Billy Hoyle 
Freshman
Posts: 82

Age: 50
Loc: Roar-ee's Lair
Reg: 12-17-14
Kyle Smith to San Francisco
03-31-16 02:12 AM - Post#205563    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

  • Columbia 37P6 Said:
Bruce Weber is a class act, but his annual salary exceeds $2,000,000 and his contract with Kansas State provides for a $2,500,000 buyout which is just too pricey for most schools including Columbia and any other Ivy.



I think lookatme3 got confused when he read that Bruce Weber was seen in Manhattan and forgot that KSU is located in Manhattan, KS.
I can hear Jimi!


Edited by Billy Hoyle on 03-31-16 02:14 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Billy Hoyle 
Freshman
Posts: 82

Age: 50
Loc: Roar-ee's Lair
Reg: 12-17-14
Kyle Smith to San Francisco
03-31-16 02:14 AM - Post#205564    
    In response to RHunter3

  • RHunter3 Said:
I've got 1st hand knowledge and I haven't heard this.



I've got to trust desperateforattention3 here. If there was inside information to confirm this allegation he would have run to the board to tell everyone months ago.
I can hear Jimi!


Edited by Billy Hoyle on 03-31-16 02:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Kyle Smith to San Francisco
03-31-16 07:15 AM - Post#205565    
    In response to bradley

Probably repeating what others have opined from time to time (hey, never be shy about copying someone's else's good ideas) but the schools can maintain lower salaries if they either offer job security (i.e., don't fire coaches for coming in last) or accept constant turnover. We've seen the first approach - which I think was the general norm for decades - rapidly erode. IMO the second approach is probably still vaguely acceptable to most school administrators (not ADs) although I also suspect administrators are finding it much tougher to recruit new ADs unless they commit to being more competitive and that may be where the pressure really gets applied.

 
Murph 
Masters Student
Posts: 626

Age: 63
Reg: 09-13-11
03-31-16 07:19 AM - Post#205566    
    In response to randal7

  • randal7 Said:
I'm going to let you all in on a little secret... the players don't like Smith. Him going may actually help unify this team and, if the right guy is hired, this team can potentially reach new heights.




Interesting post. I sure would like verification on that, one way or another.


 
randal7 
Freshman
Posts: 37

Age: 36
Reg: 12-31-13
03-31-16 08:01 AM - Post#205567    
    In response to Murph

I've spoken to many of the players -- some of them since smith left. The reaction has been one of indifference. All the players suspected at the start of the year that smith was going. They also knew they had a loaded team and could win the ivy.

The main stuff the players dislike about him is the odd personnel moves he makes during games, the rigidity with which he makes the players run the offense (you do anything outside it and you are getting the hook), the yelling and meltdowns he has during the games in the huddle (he's not at all inspirational during the game) and the fact that he didn't let this senior laden team run and do some of the things they were fully capable of doing. The guys I've spoken to feel like this season woukd have ended with an ivy league championship with a different coach.

Did you see guys embracing the coach postgame during the aftermath of the CIT final? Ask yourself who dumped the water cooler on him. Didn't happen. A player dumped a cup of water on his head. Smith is not adored or beloved or even liked. He's not hated either, won't go that far. But he's definitely not a guy that the players feel connected to.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
03-31-16 09:48 AM - Post#205569    
    In response to randal7

If I had to make an educated guess, I would suspect that similar comments would be made about many successful coaches. Think of a coach like Jim Boeheim -- does every player or most players love him???

I remember hearing similar things about Coach Henderson when he took over the Tiger program. Apparently, many of the players wanted Brian Earl and there was a transition period for Coach Henderson.

In a perfect world, the coach would win and be loved/respected by the players but at the end of the day, the won-lost record is the test that is the final determinant. Smith did pretty darn well when you consider the track record of his predecessors.

 
RHunter3 
Junior
Posts: 281
RHunter3
Reg: 12-02-14
03-31-16 09:56 AM - Post#205570    
    In response to bradley

I have a kid on the team and he loves Coach Smith and he says the team does as well.
He would also tell me if he didn't.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-31-16 10:35 AM - Post#205571    
    In response to RHunter3

This job will be filled in a week or so. I am told there is a short list of great candidates. This move by Kyle, I am told, was based largely on the fact that he is a west coast guy, his in-laws and his father live on the west coast, and he is basically going home. From what I have been told, money was not an issue and Columbia pays a very nice package.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
03-31-16 10:37 AM - Post#205572    
    In response to Chet Forte

PS, what I don't know is what is being done by the assistants and the AD to make sure the excellent incoming class is OK.


 
cc66 
Postdoc
Posts: 2201

Reg: 10-09-09
03-31-16 10:51 AM - Post#205573    
    In response to Chet Forte

Apart from playing time, the question of who liked and disliked Smith comes down to questions of personal style. I think Smith was honest about how he allocated playing time and pretty straightforward with his players. What he wasn't was fuzzy and emotional. If you were looking for an emotional mentor-mentee connection, that wasn't Smith.

Re Phelps: I'm curious as to why he seems such a blank slate. You used to hear a lot about Hartmann as an assistant coach, but Phelps has had a very low profile in the program, to the point that he almost seems to have disappeared. I'd like to know if this is a misperception on my part. If it isn't, I think I'd prefer Engles.

 
RHunter3 
Junior
Posts: 281
RHunter3
Reg: 12-02-14
03-31-16 11:39 AM - Post#205575    
    In response to cc66

The kids love Phelps. He a players coach and connects with the team well. I know one assistant is going with Smith to USF. They are hoping to keep the rest on board.

 
randal7 
Freshman
Posts: 37

Age: 36
Reg: 12-31-13
03-31-16 12:09 PM - Post#205576    
    In response to RHunter3

We have different information then haha.

I am very close with several starters. That's where my info is coming from. And I asked them whether they wanted to keep on any of the assistants or felt a strong emotional bond to them and the response was "not really"

One guy they do love is the sports psychologist. Apparently he's very good. If only we could get HIS take on the players view of Smith -- that would make for some awesome reading.

Also want to be clear I don't have an axe to grind with Smith. If you've noticed I never spoke out against the guy like this while he was the coach. You support the team and the staff as best you can while they are in the roles. But I think in our heart of hearts we know this team was stacked and SHOULD have won the Ivy. It was a great year -- no doubt. But it should and could have been better.

 
Murph 
Masters Student
Posts: 626

Age: 63
Reg: 09-13-11
Kyle Smith to San Francisco
03-31-16 12:38 PM - Post#205579    
    In response to randal7

Phelps seems like a Tommy Amaker clone. PG and four year starter for a North Carolina ACC school, including a National Champion. Phelps has a much longer professional career as a player, but much less experience as a coach than Amaker.

Only Phelps has the added benefit of hailing from NYC, and attending a prestigious Catholic high school basketball program that boasts notable alumns such as Lamar Odom, Jayson Williams, Omar Cook, Speedy Claxton, Khalid Reeves, Erick Barkley, Sue Bird, Tina Charles and of course Phelps. We need to tap into that pipeline, and Phelps is the way to do it.

And let's face it folks, for what Columbia has available to pay a coach, we would probably be better off hiring a less experienced guy like Phelps for less money, and trying to cultivate him as a successful head coach, who's interested in staying.

Piling should hire Phelps on a interim basis. If he doesn't work out then fine, but we should find out first.

 
RHunter3 
Junior
Posts: 281
RHunter3
Reg: 12-02-14
03-31-16 12:40 PM - Post#205580    
    In response to randal7

I guess so. We talk every few days. I can say the team is a close knit group, which matter most. They will play for each other
The team was definitely stacked. My complaint is they gotta defend better and be willing defenders.
If they get a coach that can utilize the talent that's coming back to their strengths we
ll be very good next year as well. One of the coaches think that they will be better defensively right away.

 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
03-31-16 01:51 PM - Post#205585    
    In response to RHunter3

Summing up the Kyle Smith Era at Columbia, I would say that he was an outstanding basketball coach who achieved much more success than his predecessors despite having to overcome adversity in the form of several unfortunate injuries to key players. More than that, Kyle took the program to new heights in a period when the competition in the Ivy League was much more fierce than ever before. And he did that without embarrassing either Columbia or the Ivy League thru recruiting violations and the like. Kyle will be remembered also a superb game coach who rarely made mistakes before, during or after the game. Kyle also understood that basketball is a team sport played by five individuals at a time and whether a team won or loss usually resulted not from the individual performance of one player but all five. Finally, Kyle was a class act, a gentleman, a very good communicator and an all-around nice guy. I thank him for all he has done for Columbia Basketball and wish him and his family well in San Francisco. Good Luck Kyle!

 
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