HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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04-11-16 07:40 PM - Post#206056
Bleacher Report on non-NCAA tourney teams with Loaded 2016 recruiting classes:
Incoming recruits: 4-star point guard Bryce Aiken, 4-star small forward Seth Towns, 4-star power forward Chris Lewis, 3-star power forward Robert Baker, 3-star center Henry Welsh, 3-star shooting guard Justin Bassey, 2-star guard Christian Juzang.
Next season's outlook: Nearly the entire roster returns for Harvard, and the kind of talent it has on the roster from top to bottom makes it the likely Ivy League favorite. The Crimson could be a dangerous mid-major team next season.
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CrimsonWest
Sophomore
Posts: 106
Reg: 10-17-11
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Re: Moving Forward 04-12-16 02:41 PM - Post#206088
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Just saw on GoCrimson that Siyani Chambers and Corbin Miller were voted captains by the team. I was a little surprised that Zena was not. You never know how he is regarded in the locker room, or maybe just a little short on votes.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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04-12-16 02:55 PM - Post#206089
In response to CrimsonWest
Very interesting. I've wondered where Corbin will fit in next year. Need to find defensive lockdown guard ala Agunwa and Wes. Andre was a hope but I wonder if Towns or Bassey get a shot at it. Bryce is likely quick but Bryce/Tommy and Siyani are a small backcourt. May be sufficient for Ivy play. Corbin's strength is not defense.
Amaker's winning teams start with defense.
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iabhoops88
Sophomore
Posts: 107
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 01-26-13
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04-12-16 02:57 PM - Post#206090
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Unfortunately, there is only one ball and 200 minutes per game. We will see how Coach Amaker handles this wealth of talent. Practices at Lavietes next season should be competitive and intense.
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OneIvyOne
Junior
Posts: 201
Loc: West
Reg: 08-28-13
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04-12-16 03:47 PM - Post#206094
In response to iabhoops88
With 21 on the roster, playing time may tough to divide up.
Point guards:
Chambers, McCarthy, Fraschilla, Aiken
Guards:
Johnson, Miller, Chatfield, Yoshor, McLean, Feinberg, Bassey, Juzang
Forwards:
Perez, Myers, Towns, Baker
Forward/Center:
Edosomwan, Egi, Dragovic, Lewis, Welsh
4 seniors, 4 juniors, 6 sophs, 7 frosh.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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Moving Forward 04-12-16 06:43 PM - Post#206104
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Looks good on paper, Granddad. Your boys will be up against my Tigers with EVERYONE back from this season's 22-7 team plus Hans Brase. With some experience over their first season, perhaps your talented, but unproven, Cantabs can snag the Ivies a 2nd spot at the NCAAs.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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04-12-16 06:53 PM - Post#206106
In response to OneIvyOne
One can winnow the depth chart to 2 (or 3) favorites at each position. I expect playing time at Guard and Forward to depend on defense. Johnson and Towns might be exceptions as its hard to sit your best shooter and likely your best offensive player.
Barring injuries, Siyani and Zena should be locks as starters and Towns will likely join them. Johnson/Miller provide outside threat and likely Johnson starts. Baker and Lewis, provide size and rebounding, followed by Egi and Welsh. Baker or Lewis probably starts alongside Zena and the others backup Zena and the starter. Bassey/Chatfield likely backup Towns. McCarthy should backup Siyani with Aiken pushing him hard.
If Chatfield/Bassey/Perez add athleticism and defense, Coach Amaker may look to use them more often.
Unless Dragovic, Myers, Yoshor, McLean, Fineberg, Juzang or Fraschilla find a niche, they'll be waiting for garbage time (not unlike this year). That leaves the 14 others to split the playing time, more like 12 assuming Welsh and Perez play in unique situations. If Andre and Egi don't step it up, a 10 man rotation (9 if you use only 2 point guards) could emerge.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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04-16-16 12:00 AM - Post#206209
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
ESPN dropped Harvard's incoming class to 12th in nation.
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H78
PhD Student
Posts: 1458
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
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Moving Forward 04-16-16 04:30 AM - Post#206210
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Hey, HDG.
I was talking about this subject with iabhoops and another friend of ours and this friend pointed out that anywhere in the top 25 is just absolutely phenomenal for any Ivy school.
So, whether we're 37 or 8 or 12...(or 25!)...huge kudos to Coach TA for bringing all of us to this level. The best is yet to come , we know it, don't we?
Can't wait 'til Shanghai, can you?
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Moving Forward 04-16-16 11:03 AM - Post#206213
In response to H78
Agree 100% H78! Exciting yet uncharted territory in this era. Of course, no longer being the anomolous underdog has a chance to change perspective and expectations.
Next few years should be cool, at least until that job at Duke becomes available.
(Obviously, I was joking about the ESPN rankings!)
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 04-16-16 11:04 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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OneIvyOne
Junior
Posts: 201
Loc: West
Reg: 08-28-13
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Re: Moving Forward 04-19-16 02:30 PM - Post#206330
In response to H78
Shanghai - ugh, don't remind me.
I think the China trip is a terrible trade-off for the once-every-four-year international summer trip. While the summer international trip could not include the freshmen, it would have give Si some time to get his sea legs back, and could have been highly developmental for Egi, Chatfield, Myers, Yoshor, etc.
Now they get an in-season trip across the world, while missing school, to play one game. Hopefully the team gets some scrimmages or something else out of it, not just one game.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Moving Forward 04-21-16 02:22 PM - Post#206426
In response to OneIvyOne
A few thoughts on all of this:
1) It may not be a done deal that the China trip has to be Harvard's 1-in-4 international trip. I believe it was going to appeal - not sure how that turned out.
2) My early guess at a starting lineup is: Siyani, Aiken, Bassey, Towns and Z. I'm not so sure that the starting lineup will matter all that much, as I'd expect to see significant minutes played by Corey, TMac, Corbin and Chris Lewis, as well.
2a) STRENGTHS - Ball handling will flip from a huge weakness to a strength, as Harvard could easily have two competent to plus distributors on the floor at all times. Possession usage will also be less of a strain, as Harvard swaps out a bunch of lower usage, defensive players for offensive talent. Finally, depth should be a huge boost for the Crimson. Harvard could easily go 12 deep with freshmen who will log big minutes and returning players with substantial non-garbage minutes in their careers.
2b) WEAKNESSES - Post play. Maybe not so much of a weakness as a question mark. Zena can play. Egi has been a mixed bag and can't stay on the floor if he can't shoot FTs. Dragovic barely saw time as a freshman. Perez and Myers (if healthy) are more wings than posts. That could put a lot of pressure on the two true posts in the freshman class (Chris Lewis and Henry Welsh) to produce immediately. Perimeter lockdown defender is another potential weakness. Agunwa Okolie took every team's toughest non-center matchup last year. Especially if Harvard wants to go with two of Siyani, TMac and Bryce on the floor for significant stretches, it will need a third guard that can D up. The thought is that Bassey can be that guy. If he can't maybe it's Chatfield. Regardless, Okolie's presence will be sorely missed in that respect.
3) Harvard should vault right back into the Top 100 next season, but the league will be extremely competitive. Non-conference performance will be vital, as the league has a chance to touch the Top 10 nationally.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Re: Moving Forward 04-21-16 03:04 PM - Post#206430
In response to mrjames
Thanks so much for your thoughts. Observations:
- I think you are right on the money identifying the need for a lockdown defender to step up. Probably the key to how far the Crimson go not only next year, but thereafter.
- Starting 3 freshmen and two seniors.
- Robert Baker Jr. is not included in your plans. He looks to be a thin and agile 6'10", but possibly more of a project than a top 100 billing might suggest. Hopefully, not another Mike Hall who never really added the bulk Tommy thought he needed to play.
- I see Corey edging out Corbin for minutes. Better defense and ability to get his shots. Appears you are assuming Bassey edges out Corey. If Aiken, Towns and Bassey start and Lewis is the heir apparent to Zena, then this is an amazing class - and I'm not even including the two 6'10" frosh who might need time to develop.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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04-21-16 04:39 PM - Post#206437
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
One more thought Mike - 3 point shooting. In your projected starting lineup it looks like there would be four competent 3 point shooters (Siyani, Bryce, Seth and Justin), but no specialist. I guess there's an old school appeal to that, but we've been spoiled by Laurent and now Corey/Corbin.
I've read that Seth is a phenomenal shooter, including from the foul line and downtown. I think he's going to catch the league off guard - a Shonn Miller but with greater offensive skills. Second best player in the state of Ohio who led the state in scoring (32ppg, 80% ft) and finished second in the all star three point shooting contest.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Moving Forward 04-21-16 05:17 PM - Post#206438
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
If I had to set a line on (barring injuries) freshmen logging 40+% of team minutes (my "rotation" cutoff), I think I'd say 3.5. Starters is always a weird distinction (non-starters can play more minutes in some cases), but I'd bounce between setting the line at 2 or 2.5 there.
Baker is a very interesting prospect, but for the reason you mentioned, I think his freshman year may involve fewer minutes than a Top 100 designation might imply. Baker plays more like a wing than a true big. If he were the latter, he'd have a great chance to see serious time. But I see him more as a stretch four, which is problematic for two reasons: 1) Amaker tends to shy away from small ball when he has any reasonable chance to avoid it (for instance, this year, 6'9 Chris Egi played more minutes than 6'6 Weisner Perez, even though the output battle was heavily slanted toward Perez). 2) 2016-17 Harvard will have a bunch of stretch four candidates to choose from including Towns, Perez, Dragovic and Myers. My guess is that this season will be about Baker figuring out how to contribute at the college level, while sophomore year and beyond will be about flourishing in that role.
As for Corey... how to put this politely... Umm... Footspeed is an issue. I firmly believe that Corey is better speed and defensive footwork away from being an NBA player. He gets himself into his shot as well as any Harvard player I've seen - possibly better than Rivard. And his wingspan could make him a disruptive defensive force. He's slow, though. He can still be a productive college player regardless, but if he can get faster and more agile, he's got NBA potential.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-21-16 05:22 PM - Post#206441
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I like having the 3-point shooting come off the bench, because it helps keep the offense from stagnating with your second team. If we assume that the starters will play together for about 15-20 mins a game, another 10-15 mins of mostly starters and subs and about 10 mins of mostly bench, during those latter 10 minutes, the offense can really bog down. Having Corey and Corbin as outlets to launch threes can help keep the efficiency up when usage is most challenged.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Moving Forward 04-21-16 05:41 PM - Post#206445
In response to mrjames
Makes a lot of sense until teams start packing it in to stop Zena and thwart dribble penetration of Wes and Siyani. Saw a lot of teams do that in 2014-15 season when Harvard was a bit short on 3 point shooters and teams like BU decided it wasn't going to let Zena and Steve beat them. I believe it led to Wes starting to shoot set shots from deep. With Zena, Towns, Lewis, Baker, Egi, Welsh, I would expect certain teams to force Harvard to beat them from the outside.
Amaker loves to play inside-out as well.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 04-21-16 05:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-20-16 08:43 AM - Post#208639
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Bleacher Report predicts Harvard to be one of the most improved college basketball teams.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2652223-pred ict...
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-21-16 09:43 AM - Post#208747
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
That's a pretty safe bet, given that Harvard at full strength last year was much better than it actually finished. It's easy to forget that Harvard really found its stride before TMac got injured versus Vermont and then Zena and Evan missed time in Ivy play. Crimson was way, way too thin to absorb any more losses last year, but this year depth should flip to a relative strength.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-21-16 11:04 AM - Post#208756
In response to mrjames
Last year was - somewhat understandably - very inconsistent. Mike, you are right on point when you mention the injuries to TMAC and Zena (compounded by the the illness of Evan). Harvard had to play without a point guard or center/PF for stretches. Just brutal.
Meaninfully, in an anticipated rebuilding year dominated by key injuries, Harvard would still have made the Ivy League Tournament finishing with a three game winning streak, including the win over Princeton that clinched the Ivy League Title for Yale and a blowout of Penn. Harvard's best stretch of play was in Hawaii until its season ending run consisting of the final 10 minutes at Cornell, the victory over Princeton and the first half against Penn. Had Zena/TMAC not gotten hurt, there is a chance Harvard could have played postseason basketball, likely alongside Columbia in the CIT with both teams finally healthy and playing their best ball.
Regardless, if nothing else, last year helped players like Zena, TMAC, Corey and possibly others (Chris, Weisner) better prepared to contribute this coming season. Great to have experience PLUS possibly the best incoming class in Ivy history PLUS the return of Siyani!
Already locked up my season tix and anticipating the release of the schedule. I understand finding opponents willing to schedule Harvard is again an issue.
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Local Observer
Junior
Posts: 231
Reg: 03-30-14
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07-21-16 06:29 PM - Post#208804
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Hey, Lewis no longer on the roster??
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-21-16 10:08 PM - Post#208807
In response to Local Observer
Lewis is at the top of the roster - #0
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-21-16 10:21 PM - Post#208808
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
19 players on roster - 7 frosh
Siyani will be added when he returns but Hunter Myers is missing.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-22-16 08:28 AM - Post#208812
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
OOC Schedule starting to leak out:
Away/Neutral:
Stanford
BC
UMass
Home:
Holy Cross
McGill
Fordham
Northeastern
Howard
I believe there will be one more home game scheduled and, hopefully, some stronger away games. Christmas seems to be still open. I understand that teams are avoiding playing Harvard. Could be that we play Vermont and BU away. Could lead to very strong record, but very weak RPI.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Moving Forward 07-22-16 11:05 AM - Post#208824
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Jumping the gun A LOT, but if Harvard doesn't have any blockbuster opponents scheduled for their remaining 3 or 4 OOC slots, it looks like Harvard may need to win the tournament due to its weak SOS and RPI. Very very little room for error(s)/losses.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 07-22-16 11:05 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-22-16 07:57 PM - Post#208905
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I believe Houston is owed a return game.
I'd also imagine that BU will be home this year.
I would not expect any other big names on the schedule. Not a lot of takers on hosting Harvard.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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07-23-16 07:51 PM - Post#208915
In response to mrjames
4* recruits. 2* schedule. Your stars might get a little bored with the competition.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-23-16 10:31 PM - Post#208918
In response to Tiger69
Don't be so negative on your Tigers. I'm sure they'll be worthy competition .... this year.
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H78
PhD Student
Posts: 1458
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
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07-24-16 09:54 PM - Post#208940
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
That's just old T69, trolling, as usual...
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 468
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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07-29-16 04:00 PM - Post#209116
In response to H78
I'm assuming we put in a call to Minnesota to give Siyani a home game and they said no...
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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07-30-16 03:27 PM - Post#209150
In response to H78
Just fighting the dog days of summer.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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Moving Forward 07-30-16 03:34 PM - Post#209151
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Harvard grandad,
I'm looking forward to this season, although the days of Ivy dominance by ANY team are over. I don't see any more 3+ title runs by anyone. ..including your Cantabs. The talent is getting more spread out.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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07-30-16 06:42 PM - Post#209152
In response to Tiger69
Don't disagree, although if Harvard's incoming class matures together it should be quite a 4 year stretch. A seven recruit class will only get better with experience. Similarly, this is a big season for Princeton - many seniors.
Remember, I don't maintain Harvard has been dominant over the past six years. Four NCAA trips could have been two, meaning only two trips in six years. Dartmouth/Justin Sears was a miracle
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H78
PhD Student
Posts: 1458
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
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08-03-16 03:48 PM - Post#209231
In response to digamma
I'm assuming we put in a call to Minnesota to give Siyani a home game and they said no...
Aha...I know you'd be leading a great Crimson rooting section there!
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