hoopla
Masters Student
Posts: 486
Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
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04-13-16 12:33 PM - Post#206118
What are the best and worst coaching jobs in the league?
At this point--sadly--I think it is as follows in order of best to worst:
Harvard
Penn
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
Cornell
Brown
Dartmouth
The Dartmouth job is a lot better now than it was (6 years ago it was the worst job in the country, not just the Ivies), but I fear it is still the worst in the league, especially with the monster gift Brown just got for the program.
Sadly for us Keggies, I fear there is a direct correlation between coaching job rankings and how desirable Ivy schools are to recruits.
Will we be able to attract a coach that isn't desperate for a job? I think the answer is no.
Nothing against Cormier--he did a hell of a job and should still be with us IMO--but at the time of his hire I'm not sure he was a hot commodity in the D1 coaching carousel.
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1536
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-13-16 03:51 PM - Post#206128
In response to hoopla
Based on what? Salaries? Recent record of success? Opportunities for exposure? Administrative and/or alum support? Location? Opportunities for spouse/partner to get a desirable job? Other?
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-13-16 04:49 PM - Post#206129
In response to Dr. V
Other factors to consider: whether his office has a window, location of his parking space, key to the executive washroom, Twix Bars in the vending machine down the hall.
This is kind of a pointless exercise. There's no meaningful way to rank these positions.
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hoopla
Masters Student
Posts: 486
Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
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Ranking the coaching jobs in Ivy 04-13-16 04:52 PM - Post#206130
In response to Silver Maple
Based on how many of the ingredients are in place for a coach/program to succeed. And based on how many obstacles are there. In other words based on everything. Was not really thinking about the office window, parking, and twix bars, however...
Edited by hoopla on 04-13-16 04:52 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-13-16 05:02 PM - Post#206131
In response to Dr. V
Other?
Paid membership at a prestigious country club.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-13-16 05:03 PM - Post#206132
In response to hoopla
You're maximizing. That will only make you unhappy. Try satisficing. It's a better way to live.
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hoopla
Masters Student
Posts: 486
Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
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04-13-16 07:04 PM - Post#206134
In response to Silver Maple
Silver Maple. You are a Penn fan, and your School is set up to succeed in basketball. You have ideal location, resources, size, and facility. So, easy for you to say to a Dartmouth fan "be a satisficer not maximizer."
That said, having read your posts, while you're probably a bit more accepting of imperfection than the avg Penn fan, when I envision you, I see a scowling dude atop a high horse, not a Buddha in the lotus position with a satisfied smile on your face.
Obviously the coaching topic is on Dartmouth and Cornell fans minds more than other Ivy schools, but I actually thought a ranking of coaching jobs was a pretty interesting and relevant topic to these boards. For all the discussions to poo-poo, I'm not sure why you would choose this one.
I stand by my initial ranking of the coaching jobs, and by my belief that there is a direct correlation between coaching job rankings and recruiting power.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-13-16 08:23 PM - Post#206136
In response to hoopla
I'm not saying that you shouldn't maximize with respect to the result of the Dartmouth HC search. In that situation you should be seeking the optimal outcome. I'm simply saying that trying to rank the desirability of the eight Ivy coaching jobs is maximizing behavior. It would be much more meaningful and useful to divide the jobs into two or three tiers of desirability. Any greater degree of precision than that is illusory.
BTW, I went to grad school in Hanover. As long as they're not playing Penn, I always root for the Green, and certainly hope the AD manages to hire an outstanding coach.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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04-14-16 08:09 AM - Post#206139
In response to Silver Maple
I have a lot of trouble with this exercise, aside from its pointlessness. What, exactly, are the criteria? Who determines the criteria? Or is this simply one guy trying to start a pointless discussion? Only mikejames has the depth of knowledge based on research that only he is capable of doing to rank the coaching positions.
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Dr. V
PhD Student
Posts: 1536
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-14-16 08:41 AM - Post#206140
In response to JadwinGeorge
Not to beat this thing into the ground, but there are two additional challenges to trying to rank coaching jobs. First, there's the question of coaching jobs at what point in time re quality of returning players? A job may not the the most attractive re location/gym/level of support, but at time t the team may happen to have some very good young players on the roster. That changes the calculus rather significantly for me as a coaching applicant. Second, humans are not robots. Different people find different options attractive for subjective reasons, e.g., wife demands to be in a NYC for cultural or job reasons or wife hates big cities and wants family to raise kids in small college town etc.
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hoopla
Masters Student
Posts: 486
Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
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04-14-16 10:57 AM - Post#206142
In response to Dr. V
I really don't think this is that complicated of a question.
Nor was it intended to be a heavy, serious discussion.
In calling this discussion pointless, you are saying other discussions are not pointless.
The fact is, nothing any of us says on these boards changes anything or makes any difference whatsoever; and that's how it should be.
If you asked the Ivy coaches the simple question "how would you rank the coaching jobs in the Ivy" they would be able to answer very quickly. (To coaches at this level, who are being fired left and right, it's 99.9% about how easy or hard it is to win there. Are the pieces in place? Institutional support? Can we recruit here?)
Anyway, I'm now agreeing with everyone in that I'm not interested in carrying onthis discussion at this venue anymore.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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04-14-16 02:38 PM - Post#206144
In response to hoopla
OK, I'll bite. It's not that hard since this is all opinion--which is a primary draw of message boards (facts be damned).
I think the best Ivy Coaching Jobs are in this order:
Penn-facilities are the best in the Ivy, tradition is the best in the Ivy, city location. If the administration commits to it like Harvard they could dominate
Harvard-Administrative advantage (resources), great location, best brand
Yale- closest to H in brand, although NH is not a great town, it's proximal to NYC, enough resources to succeed it seems
Princeton- I wish they were last but they aren't. I have no idea why anyone would ever consider going there.
Columbia-Great location, facilities aren't as good but the draw of NYC and the aura makes it a draw. Recent administration commitment gives them a better chance. Gym is awful IMO
Brown-of the lower three this is the best in my view primarily because it has the most reasonable location .
Cornell-Facilities and campus are nice but it is remote. How Donahue won there is still mind boggling at some level.
Dartmouth- Toughest job in the Ivy in my view. That said it's better than toughest job in the MAC or Big South, etc. I think you have to have extra resources to find the right kind of kid that will come there.
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hoopla
Masters Student
Posts: 486
Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
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04-14-16 06:18 PM - Post#206150
In response to PennFan10
LOL re: your Princeton commentary.
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digamma
Masters Student
Posts: 466
Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
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04-14-16 11:00 PM - Post#206157
In response to hoopla
I'll play too.
1. Princeton--tradition, system, financial aid, name brand.
2. Harvard--a hair behind because until 6 years ago, Harvard basketball was an after thought.
3. Yale--financial aid.
4. Penn--Facilities and tradition.
5. Columbia--Location and local talent.
6. Brown--new money and fun spot closer to major cities.
7. Cornell--only because of their success in the NCAAs this century.
8. Dartmouth--Not that bad of a job, which I think says a lot for the league.
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