Anonymous
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12-09-04 02:32 AM - Post#969
Nice win against Rutgers tonight. Tigers showed the killer instinct at the end that has been lacking the last couple of years. The Venable-to-Wallace baseball pass over the press for 2 and the foul near the end was a thing of beauty.
If Logan and Owings can come back strong, this will be a very nice team.
Go Tigers!
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Phil
Freshman
Posts: 75
Loc: Princeton
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 02:43 AM - Post#970
In response to
Yes Rutgers played a very tenacious zone for most of the game daring the Tigers to shoot over the top. Second half PU kept getting their nose in front and then broke it open late. Officiating seemed a bit erratic and I have no idea what Joe got the technical for!
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Anonymous
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 03:03 AM - Post#971
In response to Phil
I presume the technical was for tellling the ref he missed the obvious charge into Wallace a few seconds earlier, though there probably was a larger purpose as well.
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puck
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 03:42 AM - Post#972
In response to Phil
The technical to Joe was for having his feet on the court. By-the-way, I sat next to Judson Wallace's mom the first half while she was shooting photos with her new digital slr (of Judson in action). She said he's so happy he came to Princeton, he loves everybody on the team, Will is his best friend...they really want to win it all. Then Judson hit a three and his mom screamed "goosebumps!" It sounded pretty good. Things are almost starting to gel at Princeton.
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Jon Solomon
T.A.
Posts: 88
Loc: Mercer County, NJ
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 03:49 AM - Post#973
In response to puck
Coach Scott got the technical for not keeping quiet after the official yelled "I heard you Joe, THAT'S ENOUGH!" at him. I wrote the official's quote down right after he said it and the T came just seconds afterwards.
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nix23
goober
Posts: 52
Loc: NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 04:08 AM - Post#974
In response to Jon Solomon
If that was what Joe got the T for then that ref needs to find another line of work. He was not jumping up and down, not screaming, there was no need for a technical there.
It will be interesting to see how the lineup shapes up once Luke and Andre get back. You can't take Savage out of the lineup, maybe Greenman goes to the bench? One thing is for certain, we are not going to see much of Schafer this year. Two turnovers in 4 minutes kept him on the bench for the rest of the night. What won the game tonight was the offensive rebounding, that is the most second chances that I have seen from in a Princeton team in a long time.
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Brian Martin
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 04:35 AM - Post#975
In response to puck
The PU site story says defense and 3-pt shooting won the game, but I am going to disagree. Defense was good, but rebounding was huge. 33-30 rebound advantage, 14-9 offensive rebound advantage. 11 for Wallace, 7 for Venable. Rutgers best chance to get good shots was to get second chances and Princeton did not let that happen. On the other end, Princeton took advantage of several second chances.
Also I think that taking the offense inside the arc more during the second half allowed the Tigers to get much better looks after a frustrating first half. I thought Princeton should have been up by 10 at halftime. Rutgers showed nothing, but Tigers did not make the Rutgers zone move and took a lot of threes from two steps behind the line. For the half, PU was 5-17 from 3, only 2-4 from 2. In the 2nd half Princeton looked more to Wallace or Stephens on the baseline, or to Venable or Sergeant flashing into the middle, or dribbled across the top of the zone. These actions forcing defensive movement created some seams and we got a few twos and drew some shooting fouls. That then opened up more open looks from three. 2nd half 6-18 from 3, 5-8 from 2, and shot more foul shots.
The 9-0 run that put Princeton ahead for good came from inside play and rebounding:
A Savage layup from a Venable assist,
2 ft by Savage after a shooting foul on a 2-pt attempt,
3 by Wallace on the 4th chance after missed 3, off rebound, missed 3, off rebound, missed 3, off rebound,
2 ft by Stephens who was fouled after a good feed down low.
Venable had 5 assists and 7 rebounds but struggled from the floor. He is not a spot up shooter. Let Greenman and Savage play that role. Venable can dribble penetrate through a seam of the zone and has the ability and awareness to know when to go all the way, pull up for a short jumper, or dish. He makes things happen when he is attacking the defense.
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Brian Martin
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 04:47 AM - Post#976
In response to Brian Martin
I am very happy that we finally beat Rutgers. I still think of them as a major rival, though Princeton has not treated it as a big game in recent years. It was especially bad to lose to some Rutgers teams that were not very good.
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BRHPr91
goober
Posts: 75
Loc: Rochester, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 05:28 AM - Post#977
In response to Brian Martin
I too am very happy to beat Rutgers. I am from that late '80s/early '90s era and Rutgers was a big game to me then (and I'm not even from Jersey). I remember going up to the RAC in 1990 and watching the Tigers beat the Knights by 13, just like tonight. And just like tonight, in the closing minutes Rutgers ran a full-court press and a big man (in that case, Matt Eastwick) sneaked into the clear and caught a long pass for a bucket (in that case, a two-handed jam that tore the roof off the RAC).
I think part of the problem in recent years was that it was Rutgers who tried not to treat it as a big game, even going so far as to take us off their schedule for a couple of years after they joined the Big East (the way Villanova did with Penn). When they were in the A-10, we were one of their premier opponents. Not quite so anymore, now that Syracuse and Georgetown and UConn et. al. make regular RAC appearances. Still, this rivalry has major history and should never be abandoned.
As for tonight's game itself, I agree with Brian that rebounding was key. I noticed on several occasions that we went hard to the hoop on long shots, whereas in previous games everyone would get back as soon as the ball left the shooter's hand. Obviously there has been a concerted effort in practice and meetings to focus on the glass. And we're better equipped to do it when, as in the second half, we go big with both Wallace and Stephens on the court.
I was pleased to see Rutgers running a 2-3 zone. Very few teams can run that zone like Syracuse, and Rutgers didn't have the size advantage (or the altitude, or the refereeing) that Wyoming had. I figured they would be able to solve the zone in the second half, and I was right. The same goes for the press Rutgers employed for much of the game, which I think created just one turnover for the Knights.
Rebounding aside, Greenman's two threes in the final minutes were huge. If those go in and out, we're looking at a one-possession game with two minutes left. As it was, his treys pushed the advantage to 49-40 and it was over.
I also agree with the implication that Venable had an excellent game even though the numbers did not show up on the stat sheet.
A solid win; we needed that, because Temple will be a real test.
| The fans may or may not like a lot of passing, but I know they don't like losing. -- Pete Carril |
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Jon Solomon
T.A.
Posts: 88
Loc: Mercer County, NJ
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 06:05 AM - Post#978
In response to BRHPr91
1995-1996 is the only season Princeton & Rutgers did not play.
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TigerDave
goober
Posts: 61
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 01:26 PM - Post#979
In response to Jon Solomon
To be honest, I thought Rutgers looked terrible last night. I'm not sure if it was an off-night (they did play Wisconsin close 4 days ago) or if it is just that they aren't very good. It seemed to me that they ran out of steam physically and mentally. At one point near the end, Wallace got a hoop on nice backdoor cut down the baseline. Time was called and the two Rutgers players just seemed to hang their heads.
I'm impressed with the hybrid zone that Scott has Princeton running. The team played tenacious defense that just wore Rutgers down. This does mark a return to the signature style of play from the Carrill era. I think the defense went soft just a bit under JT3. This year the defense definitely reflects the attitude & syle of Joe Scott.
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oldschooltiger
newbie
Posts: 10
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-09-04 02:26 PM - Post#980
In response to TigerDave
Two quick follow ups:
1. To TigerDave, Rutgers has looked really bad this year. They were terrible against Penn State last week.
2. BRH is absolutely right about that 1990 game. The Eastwick dunk was da bomb!
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craig oren
Sophomore
Posts: 130
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-10-04 06:43 PM - Post#981
In response to oldschooltiger
judging from their board, Rutgers fans don't like playing Princeton. They think there's no glory in beating an Ivy team, and a lot of humiliation in losing to one.
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Jon Solomon
T.A.
Posts: 88
Loc: Mercer County, NJ
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-10-04 07:13 PM - Post#982
In response to craig oren
Judging from rutgers.rivals.com, the Scarlet Knights will not win another game this year! There's some amazing "the sky is falling!" reading there since Wednesday night.
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Anonymous
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Re: Nice Win
12-10-04 07:16 PM - Post#983
In response to Jon Solomon
They must be distant cousins to us Penn fans 
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BRHPr91
goober
Posts: 75
Loc: Rochester, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nice Win
12-10-04 07:22 PM - Post#984
In response to
Rutgers has a fan message board?
| The fans may or may not like a lot of passing, but I know they don't like losing. -- Pete Carril |
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Anonymous
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Who will keep playing?
12-11-04 12:11 PM - Post#985
In response to nix23
Owings and Savage clearly are both good enough to start, along with Logan. But there will be a crowd at guard as well.
Venable has played mostly forward with Logan and Owings out, giving opportunities to Sargeant and Schafer.
I discount Max's off-game against Rutgers - he is a very good player. But he is the third guard in the rotation at the moment, so he looks like the fourth when Venable moves back to guard full-time. If so, he probably is, as you said, looking at fewer minutes in the short run.
You seemed to suggest Venable might become the point as a way of keeping the three very good forwards as starters.
Greenman has done very well this season, better than I thought possible. I don't think he will come out of the starting lineup any time soon, either in that scenario, or to be replaced by Sargeant(who has done pretty well) or Schafer.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Who will keep playing?
12-11-04 05:50 PM - Post#986
In response to
Quote:
Greenman has done very well this season, better than I thought possible. I don't think he will come out of the starting lineup any time soon, either in that scenario, or to be replaced by Sargeant(who has done pretty well) or Schafer.
I agree. Although Joe Scott likes big guards, Greenman is by far our best ball handler and, along with Owings and now Savage, one of our best jump shooters. Probably most important, his defense has been outstanding. It seems that Schafer has fallen behind the Sargeant in the rotation, probably due more to Matt's excellent defense than anything Max has done wrong.
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Jon Solomon
T.A.
Posts: 88
Loc: Mercer County, NJ
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Who will keep playing?
12-11-04 08:19 PM - Post#987
In response to Tiger81
Coach Scott also likes guys who who take care of the ball. Greenman has a 2:1+ assist/turnover ratio (16:7) and leads the team in steals. I'd be s.h.o.c.k.e.d. if the return of Logan and Owings pushed Greenman to the bench.
JS
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TigerWarrior
newbie
Posts: 2
Reg: 12-11-04
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Re: Who will keep playing?
12-12-04 05:09 AM - Post#988
In response to
Let's hope that Logan and Owings both come back strong. First one back sends Sargeant to the bench. Both back sets up a strong 3 man forward rotation with Savage.
Scott doesn't look like he wants to go small in the backcourt with Greenman and Schafer so Max is backing up Scotty at the point. Sargeant will back up Will at the 2.
Plenty to work with if Andre and Luke are ok. I miss Schaen. He was a monster last year when JTIII went offense/defense in the last seven minutes. Harrison was a big reason we won all of the close games at the end.
Gotta love Savage. Cool, tough and can shoot it.
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