Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



 Page 2 of 2 ALL<12
Username Post: Stanford        (Topic#19461)
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
11-12-16 08:16 PM - Post#213149    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Stanford started three juniors and two seniors. 60% of Harvard's minutes went to Freshmen playing their first collegiate game. No coaching changes that.

Harvard's three non-freshman leaders either experienced foul trouble (Zena, Corey) and Siyani saw his first game action in 20 months.

I'd take Harvard in December - and the next three years as well.



Those are some serious Crimson colored glasses. No surprise


 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-12-16 09:01 PM - Post#213150    
    In response to PennFan10

Irrespective of growth in team play or comfort with the D-I level, I think Harvard would have had a better chance in January and February merely because Stanford appeared to be able to do very little other than shoot FTs. They were non-existent from behind the arc and struggled with Harvard's better defenders inside. Stanford's only real offense was beating Harvard back for quick buckets and a lot of two-point jumpers. Harvard's offense was atrocious in the first half, but the playmakers started getting creative in the second half and things improved dramatically. If several key Harvard players weren't saddled with foul trouble, that would have been even more helpful.

I'd be surprised if by March, Harvard wasn't ahead of Stanford in the advanced metrics.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
11-12-16 10:35 PM - Post#213152    
    In response to mrjames

March is a long way off and both these teams will be pretty different. I was talking about December. To dismiss a new coach and new system as irrelevant to Stanfords development in their first game all the while touting your own teams growth seems pretty one sided.

 
digamma 
Masters Student
Posts: 466

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
Stanford
11-12-16 10:38 PM - Post#213153    
    In response to mrjames

I disagree a little on the game last night. Harvard struggled a bit on the interior defensively. A lot of this had to do with foul trouble and some probably odd combinations, but that's probably the thing that concerned me most. Some easy dishes and buckets inside in the second half from Stanford.

And yes, I think it is reasonable to think that a team with five freshmen (six?) getting significant time and led by a guy who didn't play last season stands to improve by some measure from their first game playing together.

Of course, it's one sided. It's a Harvard board, not a Stanford board. I'm probably not going to watch many more Stanford games this season. I'm more concerned by how we improve, and if it is in line with what I think is possible, Harvard will be significantly better a month from now, and certainly three months from now.

Edited by digamma on 11-12-16 10:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
11-12-16 11:59 PM - Post#213154    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Aiken can handle and looked good as a PG but unfortunately seemed to think he was a combo guard and tossed up a lot of iffy shots. Lewis had good activity going for blocks and rebounds. Welsh looked like Harvard's best big; as usual, Edosomwan left me shaking my head. Towns shot poorly but took good-looking shots, with even his airballs looking smooth somehow, plus he seemed to track the ball on defense very well and get involved in plays. Hope Chambers is OK. A couple of times he made Stanford look helpless on high-speed penetrations.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3614
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
Stanford
11-13-16 12:17 AM - Post#213155    
    In response to SRP

As a team, things were pretty ugly, but as individuals I was impressed at times by Aiken, Lewis & Welsh. You can see talent there with Towns also.

Aiken will be deadly when he gets better making decisions at the college level. Lewis is already a defensive presence and I thought did a great job taking what was given to him on offense and didn't force it. Welsh was a surprise. I saw his big brother playing as a senior in high school a few times and he was effective but kind of a stiff honestly. He looks further along than his brother at this point, just several inches shorter.

I think the real challenge for Amaker this year is making these different pieces a team. Will be interesting to see how it goes. I do wonder how a guy like McCarthy feel being completely displaced. I actually thought they could have used his shooting last night so surprised he got so little time.

 
H78 
PhD Student
Posts: 1458
H78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
Stanford
11-13-16 08:06 AM - Post#213159    
    In response to SRP

Agree with lots in SRP's and Mike Porter's analyses. Aiken, as acknowledged by both Siyani and him, is more of a shoot-first guard. If he's going to play a major role in the motion offense as a point guard, and work with high quality teammates like Lewis, Towns, Zena, Baker, Welsh, etc., he'll have to learn to pass more often and not take those "iffy" (well-phrased!) shots. Hopefully, he'll have open ears, eyes and mind to what he can learn from Siyani and TA this year.

To "borrow" a comment from iabhoops, Welsh and Juzang, both coming from highly competitive CIF (Calif. Interscholastic Federation) basketball programs in the Los Angeles area, are showing more court-readiness than their ESPN ratings might have indicated. Surprised that Baker made no appearance. Not sure why. Perhaps they felt he couldn't cover Stanford's bigs as well as his teammates could. Nor did Corbin Miller, whose 3 point shooting could have helped. Perhaps the coaches felt he'd be a defensive liability.

Corey had few good looks, and shot poorly, as did the other returning players from last year's team, Zena and Chris Egi. Stunningly, Egi made all his (2) free throw attempts, though Zena, who did play well against top competition last year, was a total bust. I think that Reid Travis may have scrimmaged vs. him when visiting Harvard, and just "knew" how to cover him. It would have helped if Z remembered to pass out of a double or triple team, and I'm sure on the long plane trip back, he'll get a little "loving" message from Coach TA on that unfortunate regression to his first 1 ½ years at Harvard.

Lastly, I concur with both HGD and mrjames that this team will improve quite significantly over the season, whether in 1 month or 3... Amaker may be having a few somewhat Calipari-esque moments over the coming 4-8 weeks, as he gets these freshmen to play well together. I say "somewhat" because I believe these freshmen are all planning to complete their 4 year college programs before heading onward.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-13-16 08:00 PM - Post#213190    
    In response to mrjames

With a few minutes in the game Bill Walton endorsed his "favorite" Harvard lineup:

Zena
Chris Lewis
Seth Towns
Siyani
Brice Aiken



 
iabhoops88 
Sophomore
Posts: 107

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 01-26-13
11-13-16 09:10 PM - Post#213195    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Just returned from Shanghai. I haven't seen the broadcast, but some observations:

1. Stanford bigs dominated. Not just Travis, who was best player on court by wide margin. Despite blocks by Lewis, Harvard''s interior defense was poor. Humphrey and Verboeven got good looks. Stanford did good job keeping Harvard off the boards.
2. Frosh very impressive. Bryce is lightning quick and got into lane with ease. He made Siyani look slow. Despite earlier comments and his 5-15 line, most of his shots looked good at the time. Towns dunk was awesome live, right in front of Harvard section. Has all-around game. Solid defensively, hit offensive boards, can penetrate and has outside shot.
3. Harvard offense didn't flow. Stagnated until 10 seconds on shot clock.
4. Zena didn't do much. His post moves seemed premeditated and predictable. Still reluctant to pass out of post.
5. No transition game for Harvard despite having Siyani, Bryce, and Juzang on court for significant minutes
6. Crimson got good looks but didn't hit. Juzang and Johnson 0-6 from 3.
7. Other than Travis and maybe Pickens, Harvard had more impressive players.

Other tidbits:
1. Alibaba was big sponsor and entire entourage spent time at HQ in Hangzhou.
2. You can't stand at Chinese basketball games. Every time Harvard fans in front stood, security guards told us to sit.
3. Cheng Ho '10 valiantly tried several times to get the Harvard fans to do the "I believe" chant.
4. Arena was beautiful, but less than half full.
5. Walton likely went to Shanghai Disney. Media day was held there.
6. I managed to hitch a ride to the game with Ma Jian (Utah) and Jason Collins.

 
iabhoops88 
Sophomore
Posts: 107

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 01-26-13
11-14-16 04:52 AM - Post#213208    
    In response to iabhoops88

Not sure if they showed this on broadcast, but Zena addressed fans in Mandarin before the game. The crowd appreciated that.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-16-16 12:20 PM - Post#213311    
    In response to iabhoops88

After watching replay of game, I agree with your overall thoughts. Lewis looked very impressive while Edosomwan looked the opposite. It would not be surprising if Lewis gets some of his minutes or even possibly, Egi if Zena continues to play like he has since the middle of last season.

After watching Chambers play, he does have limitations but he is so smart. He probably will be a coach someday like Amaker.

Freshman may be relied upon pretty heavily.



 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-16-16 12:48 PM - Post#213316    
    In response to bradley

Zena is still the centerpiece of the offense and the best shot blocker and rebounder. He was and still is the best 'center' in the league. He will be double teamed by every Ivy opponent. When he isn't (Kansas, Maui Invitational), the results speak for themselves. Last year, due to a lack of other scoring options, Amaker made feeding Zena down low the focus of the offense and Zena was coached not to pass out without exploring every option to take the ball to the hoop. I saw this first hand at a Harvard practice. When Zena was fed the ball and, feeling a defender on his back, passed the ball out, Amaker actually stopped the practice and instructed Zena to try and explore every option to turn and take it to the basket before passing off.

This year will be different. It will take some transition, but with new and returning talent Zena will realize/be coached that when the opposition is about to double team him that he needs to get the ball out quickly. Corey, Siyani, Bryce, Seth, Corbin and others will move the ball and find the open shot. If Zena can do this, I expect to see lines like the final game last year when he had 6pts, 10rbs, 7assts and 2 blocks - in the first half as Harvard jumped out to a 40-15 lead over Penn based on Zena's selfless performance.

Coach Amaker may need to dish out some 'tough love' on Zena, and I believe it has started already, but it's all about being the best team during the second weekend in March and that team has to be built around Siyani and Zena. This team is good without Zena, with him at his best, it has a chance to be special.

Buckle your seatbelts!



 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-16-16 01:03 PM - Post#213318    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

By the way, I believe Zena's final weekend performance against Princeton and Penn was awesome. Before then, starting with Cornell/Columbia at home he was either injured or returning from a lingering injury. His second half was largely explainable and then awesome.

 
 Page 2 of 2 ALL<12
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

5963 Views




Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.449 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 08:24 AM
Top