Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2967
Reg: 03-02-08
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 11-27-16 09:41 AM - Post#214166
Yesterday Harvard started four freshmen and Siyani Chambers. Is Amaker throwing the upperclassmen under the bus? Yale l also started a few freshmen, and Bruner came off the bench. I would think it will lead to hard feelings on the part of some of the H players who have been relegated to minor roles.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: H and Y starting lineups
11-27-16 11:46 AM - Post#214171
In response to Chet Forte
For Harvard, I think that's a fair question. We don't know for sure what is going on with injuries, but I can see how Zena and Miller could be upset by the situation. Egi and Chatfield have less of a "claim" to a role because they haven't played a well, but they've both seemingly gotten buried. Among the sophs, It now looks like only Johnson and McCarthy will get a meaningful shot to play at Harvard. Winning covers over a lot, of course, and there are ways to manage the situation effectively, but it has to be tough on the upperclassmen.
Yale is different, because there aren't any guys seeing their minutes reduced by the freshmen. There are some older deep bench guys who remain deep bench guys, but none of them were highly recruited guys who you would necessarily expect to play. Of course, they may not have viewed themselves that way. Yale seems very clear on who their top 10 guys are.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2173
Reg: 02-14-06
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11-27-16 12:22 PM - Post#214173
In response to SomeGuy
Obviously, there are too many stars in the Crimson Sky for everyone to be happy. Under the circumstances, Harvard's upperclassman have no option, other than to accept their roles as reserves whose playing time is likely to diminish throughout the season.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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Re: H and Y starting lineups
11-27-16 10:55 PM - Post#214197
In response to Chet Forte
The 2016 Freshman class across the NCAA will be one of the best classes to play college basketball. The skill level and talent is tremendous. I've seen first hand the focus and training this class and those behind them have. If you look across D1 ball you'll see a lot of "impact" freshmen who are playing at high major programs. Duke and Kentucky have two of the most respected coaches in college basketball that play the best players and not just their most senior guys. You should play guys that can win you games.
Harvard has one of those classes. These kids are well coached at the high school level and AAU level. I think Amaker knows what he has and starts his best available guys. I'm sure he's not throwing anyone under the bus. If the upperclassmen aren't playing it most likely because the underclassmen are better.
If H had gotten Wendell Carter there's no doubt he'd be a starter. You're not going to attract that level of talent if that talent isn't going to play. I think that is why the transfer situation is going to keep growing.
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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Re: H and Y starting lineups
11-27-16 11:01 PM - Post#214198
In response to SomeGuy
Right now I'm watching UCLA play and they have 3 freshman playing for the championship with 7 mins to go in the Wooden Legacy Tourney.
Harvard has two Californian freshman who grew up playing against these guys. Juzang and Henry Walsh (ironically who's brother Tom Welsh is playing in this game).
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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11-27-16 11:16 PM - Post#214199
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Princeton has a kid who I saw push Lonzo Ball and his AAU team to the limit, nearly coming back from a double digit deficit to win....after being held on the bench the first half.
I saw he finally got in for P'Ton the other day and here's his stat line for 15 mins...mind you he's 6-5 played point guard all high school and is listed as a forward for P'ton.
SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA F G% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT % REB AST BLK STL PF TO P TS
2016-17 PRIN 15.0 5.0-8.0 .625 0.0-0.0 .000 0.0-0.0 .000 5.0 3.0 0.0 1.0 1.0 0.0 10.0
Stats
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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11-28-16 01:03 AM - Post#214201
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
If you don't believe me check out this comment...the timing couldn't be better given the discussion.
Jerrry Meyer Dir. Basketball Scouting for 247Sports
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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tkapiko
Freshman
Posts: 28
Reg: 07-04-16
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H and Y starting lineups
11-28-16 02:48 AM - Post#214202
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Good point on H and Y starting lineups.
For Harvard, I guess they are still trying to figure out how to fit in all the "stars". The problem is that there is only one ball and only 5 players are allowed on the court at one time. However, I don't see why Zena is not starting.
As for Yale, it is very clear. They have only started one freshman (Oni), who was not their "star" recruit. Incidentally, he has been the best overall player for Yale so far. No one on the bench should possibly be playing ahead of him. The "star" recruit (Bruner) came off the bench in the game against Vermont last Saturday, but will probably be starting soon in the front court. The duo should be fun to watch as the season unfolds.
Edited by tkapiko on 11-28-16 02:50 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2967
Reg: 03-02-08
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11-28-16 09:49 AM - Post#214210
In response to tkapiko
Of the two freshmen we are starting, Smith clearly is ready to play. While Killingsworth has been very uneven, in fairness he is playing in Castlin's spot. I imagine that Engles is going to be doing a lot of experimenting with lineups over the next month or so.
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Columbia 37P6
Postdoc
Posts: 2173
Reg: 02-14-06
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11-28-16 01:42 PM - Post#214241
In response to Chet Forte
2016-17 Season Minutes Thru Game Five::
Mike Smith, Columbia Fr. - 145
Jake Killingsworth, Columbia Fr. - 72
Zena E, Harvard Sr, - 50
Chris E, Harvard Jr. - 35
Robert B, Harvard Fr. - 15
Corbin M, Harvard - 14
Balsa D, Harvard So - 5
Weisner P, Harvard So - 5
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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11-28-16 06:33 PM - Post#214275
In response to Columbia 37P6
Leave it to mrjames to bring the data...this is his data on frosh clipped from a main forum discussion:
"That's not surprising given that we've already seen 12 frosh play 40% or more of team minutes without Bruner and maybe one or two more that could hit that mark when healthy or over time. In 2014 and 2015, we saw 13 COMBINED and last year, which was a huge year for frosh, we had 9 (the record during the Ivy surge was 11 in 2013 but only two of those played on the top three Ivy teams, whereas six and soon to be seven and possibly more will be playing for the top three Ivy teams this year)." -mrjames in response to bradley (Post: Slow Start ---- Non-Conference
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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11-28-16 09:05 PM - Post#214278
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
I figured it out!
Harvard ticketing offered a program called "CRIMSTREAK." For $40, you got a ticket to the first home game (against Fisher) and then a ticket thereafter to every non-conference home game until Harvard lost. Amaker was just, uh, opening up seating at Lavietes, by sitting Zena and Corey. Crimstreak ticket holders only got to see Fisher and then Holy Cross. They have to pay to see the return of Patrick Steeves and GW tomorrow night. Harvard (1-3) is favored by 3.5.
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