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Username Post: Longwood        (Topic#19541)
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
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Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
11-28-16 07:57 PM - Post#214276    

The Longwood coach G in his radio interview scouting report said Dartmouth is a slower half court team. Slower than in previous years. He pegged Evan and Guilien as Dartmouth best two players with Miles behind them.

That tend to run contrary to what Coach Mac wanted to be know for as space pace and moving the ball. Very interesting.

Let's get this game started.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3614
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
11-29-16 02:45 AM - Post#214296    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

I'm going to go out on a limb and say last year's coach has this team sitting with a better record than we're seeing right now.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-29-16 09:27 AM - Post#214299    
    In response to Mike Porter

Dartmouth is easily the most disappointing team thus far. The defense has been nothing short of awful.

I look at some key metrics of how baskets are being scored, and there are some shocking ones here:

Average Poss Length: 15.8 secs (54)
2PT FG%: 60.8% (342)
Block: 1.4% (351)
A/FGM: 39.7% (12)
Pct of Shots in Transition: 28.2% (66)
FG% at Rim in Transition: 70.6%

FT % Defense: 63.0% (32)
2PT J FG%: 54.3% (351)

What this tells me is that Dartmouth is getting shredded in transition and even when it isn't, it's losing the one-on-one man battles and allowing for easy buckets off individual efforts with no rim protection to deter layup lines.

What's more is that the luck factors are somewhat inconclusive: Dartmouth will clearly see that opponent 2PT jumper make rate fall, which will help, but at the same time, it's not going to continue its FT defense numbers. Net-net that should help a bit, but not enough to go from abysmal to anything remotely resembling passable.

At some point, Dartmouth's going to have to admit that it doesn't have the personnel to play man at the D-I level. And it badly needs to solve its transition problems...

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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Loc: New Jersey
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11-29-16 11:17 AM - Post#214306    
    In response to mrjames

Hopefully, Dartmouth's freshmen will become relevant in league play. I feel that rim protection is the key to long term success, especially on defense.

For instance, without Kuakamensah, a small Bryant squad penetrated effectively against Brown last night. Mika (BYU), Travis (Stanford), and Young (Pitt) each destroyed Princeton, Harvard and Yale respectively. Last year, when Zena went down - injury and/or fouls - Harvard's defense fell apart. Guards and forwards can't play aggressive perimeter defense without a back line behind them. Sure, there are other factors, but this one is easy to spot.

Strides in Ivy recruiting resulted in Yale's strong (for an Ivy team) inside presence last year and Harvard's this year (leading league in rebounding margin and blocked shots). However, finding athletic bigs is still a rare Ivy commodity. I'm convinced that our league recruits talented 6'6" to 6'9" guys who, if a few inches taller, could be at Power 5 schools. Currently, Dartmouth, Brown and to some extent Penn and Cornell are without rim protection (although Onourah helps if he's healthy and can avoid fouls). Columbia has size, but when Coby missed a few games apparently the back line suffered as guys like Meisner and Petrasek like to play away from the basket. Princeton has size also, but Brase, Miller, Brennan haven't proven to be shot blockers and Brase likes to play away from the basket while Miller/Brennan haven't established an offensive option against players of their own size. Regardless, many of the Ivy's larger defenders are liabilities on offense.

Yale has size and good post play in Downey, and some aggressive forwards and a large guard in Oni. Bruner will help.

At Harvard, with Zena riding the bench, even the freshmen and Egi have been vulnerable. Welsh, Baker and Egi haven't shown much, and Lewis fouled out against UMass in 10 minutes. I fully expect Amaker to reinstall Zena.

Anyway, against strong OOC competition, I believe the league's lack of rim protection becomes exposed. On the rare occasions when it doesn't, the league performs very well.

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
11-29-16 11:22 AM - Post#214308    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

We stink.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Postdoc
Posts: 2685

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
11-29-16 11:42 AM - Post#214312    
    In response to Go Green

Don't worry, you'll still probably open by splitting against Harvard ... again

 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
11-29-16 11:58 AM - Post#214317    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD


When Koclanes took over for Wielgus a few years ago as women's basketball coach, the AD told her not to worry about wins and losses, but just focus on player development the first season.

I imagine that the AD has said something similar to McLaughlin....

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
11-29-16 11:59 AM - Post#214318    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

This is an argument for not firing a coach who's clearly very competent and has the program moving in the right direction. While McLaughlin probably knows what he's doing, pushing out Cormier seemed to me to be unnecessarily risky. I guess Penn isn't the only institution where the AD couldn't keep his own ego under control.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
11-29-16 12:26 PM - Post#214321    
    In response to Go Green

On paper, preseason, we shouldn't have been this bad. We're not really good and it's hard to see any major changes on the horizon. I don't see many W's on the schedule with the way things are panning out.

The data mrjames has provided is stark. IMO The Big Green needs find a zone offense they can execute and use that and it's fouls aka be more aggressive defensively. That means either playing the existing rotation with more fouls or going deeper into the bench to access fouls. Right now they play like they are afraid of coming out of the game.

I've like what I've seen from the three McD's nominee freshman so far however brief they've been on the floor in the case of Carter and Barry. Sistare has been solid and doesn't turn the ball over too much and has a solid handle and can seemingly handle pressure. If we're going to lose consistently, it might make sense to spread some developmental minutes down the bench. We're playing a lot of upperclassmen who hadn't played much in the previous years so they're acclimating to playing substantial minutes like the underclassmen. Outside of the returning big minute players everyone is really green.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
11-29-16 12:43 PM - Post#214322    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:

When Koclanes took over for Wielgus a few years ago as women's basketball coach, the AD told her not to worry about wins and losses, but just focus on player development the first season.

I imagine that the AD has said something similar to McLaughlin....



That's probably true. Then that's more reason to throw the younger guys into the fire like the other schools have been doing.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
11-29-16 02:15 PM - Post#214330    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

As I noted a couple of years ago, the NCAA made a rich-get-richer move (surprise!) when they tilted the block-charge, dribbler-contact, and post defense rules to give the advantage to more athletic players (especially speedy aggressive dribblers, but also back-down big men). The only clearly legal defense in many situations now is a shot block, and I've seen some very impressive examples from high-major teams with lots of athletes where everything at the rim is contested and frequently blocked. But it is hard to find lots of guys like that who can also play offense, so mid-majors again struggle. The verticality rule they brought in as a sop to defenders does allow a tall player with a strong base to slow the bleeding (e.g. Pete Miller), but in the future I expect players who can block shots to be developed more offensively at lower levels, which may improve the pool.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
11-29-16 02:30 PM - Post#214336    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Yes, it is interesting (and a little dispiriting) that the two teams with the worst record in the league thus far (Cornell and Dartmouth) are playing the fewest freshmen (except for Princeton). Not a good sign for the future.



 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
11-29-16 02:34 PM - Post#214337    
    In response to Go Green

It just seems like such an odd time to do that, though. Next year will be the last one with both Wright and Boudreaux. Just not the time to start over, particularly with all of the great freshmen elsewhere in the league right now.

Obviously if you have to start over b/c you lost your coach, etc., fine. But Dartmouth kind of did it to itself.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
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Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
11-29-16 03:01 PM - Post#214341    
    In response to SomeGuy

I don't see it as starting over at all. The previous coach left the Big Green with a great base even after the attrition from graduation. Wright, Boudreaux, and Smith are at the core of what would have been deeper underclassman rotation. The flashes I've seen from 3 frosh so far provide a glimpse into what the previous coach was doing. The per 40 & 100 numbers from Carter and Barry are solid. Sistare was the guard the previous coach was holding out for and got and Carter was predicted to be a key contributor by all the preseason mags. Given that the Big Green had back to back ROY and the pt that G. Smith got at the end of last season indicates there was a strategy similar to what the other Ivy's teams are doing this year. But that is not the system we've seen so far.

The freshman are either not performing well in practice, struggling with the schemes, just going through what most freshmen go through transitioning to D1, or there's just a bias toward upperclassmen.

Let's see what adjustments we make after this disheartening loss to Longwood. I did see some zone in the Longwood game so that was a changeup from the dedicated man D from the previous games. There's hope that we'll make some adjustments.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
11-29-16 03:45 PM - Post#214344    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Could be -- I was responding to GoGreen's suggestion that the coach had been told to focus on player development rather than winning. If that is the case, it seems like a strange time for it.

Assuming that is not the case, though, that makes the bad start even more disheartening in some ways. As I mentioned back when the staff was put together, I was surprised by the total lack of division one coaching experience among the coaches. I believe the entire staff has 3 years of division one coaching experience total (and all of that belongs to the head coach). Having that green a staff (see what I did there?) may lead to some growing pains. The difference may be particularly stark when you are replacing a guy with NBA experience. While some of his approach may have been outdated, I worry that Dartmouth went too far the other way in replacing him.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 486

Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
Longwood
11-30-16 12:00 PM - Post#214413    
    In response to SomeGuy

I got fired up about this move last spring. I believe Paul was as close to a guarantee of steady, incremental progress as you can get. Then with the grand piano nearing the top of the staircase we switched out the guy carrying the load. On to the next topic.

At this point, I am hoping to avoid returning to the bottom of the abyss, which is also to say avoid fulfilling the latest projections shared by GBGB. We shouldn't be where we are and it hurts to see that our baseline has fallen so quickly. We have plummeted in Kenpom.

But it is still very early, and we will get better. We need to start playing better D and smarter, more intentional O (make life easier for Boudreaux who has to work overtime for every ounce of what he gets). Coach Mac's future is bright, and we have the pieces to be quite good, but there are a lot of young guys still learning a new system. Coach needs and deserves the time and space to operate and put it together.

Meanwhile, how about Wes Dickinson for interior D and rebounding? Do we really need scoring from that spot?

A win vs ODU seems less unlikely at this point, but it is possible and would be a great boost in confidence and outlook! Let's go, Men!

Edited by hoopla on 11-30-16 12:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 486

Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
11-30-16 12:10 PM - Post#214415    
    In response to hoopla

ODU livestream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4L3dVm_ESI

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
11-30-16 01:12 PM - Post#214430    
    In response to hoopla

  • hoopla Said:


Thanks!!!
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Longwood
11-30-16 03:13 PM - Post#214449    
    In response to hoopla

  • hoopla Said:
I got fired up about this move last spring. I believe Paul was as close to a guarantee of steady, incremental progress as you can get. Then with the grand piano nearing the top of the staircase we switched out the guy carrying the load. On to the next topic.

At this point, I am hoping to avoid returning to the bottom of the abyss, which is also to say avoid fulfilling the latest projections shared by GBGB. We shouldn't be where we are and it hurts to see that our baseline has fallen so quickly. We have plummeted in Kenpom.

But it is still very early, and we will get better. We need to start playing better D and smarter, more intentional O (make life easier for Boudreaux who has to work overtime for every ounce of what he gets). Coach Mac's future is bright, and we have the pieces to be quite good, but there are a lot of young guys still learning a new system. Coach needs and deserves the time and space to operate and put it together.

Meanwhile, how about Wes Dickinson for interior D and rebounding? Do we really need scoring from that spot?

A win vs ODU seems less unlikely at this point, but it is possible and would be a great boost in confidence and outlook! Let's go, Men!



They need effective scoring from that position, heck all positions. We need to be able to take the pressure off Evan who sees the double team every game. That means we need effective shooting, which I think we have we just need more of it.

In the Longwood game our problem wasn't interior defense it was D vs the 3pt shot. The guards need to move their feet and stay in front of their guys. I think we've done a decent job taking charges or attempting to take a charge, but in all the games the bulk of the opponent scoring is coming from the guard positions.

We don't have a prolific shot blocker on the team. So rim protection isn't going to improve. We also aren't losing the battle of the boards. Even versus URI's athletes we weren't grossly outrebounded. We're losing at back court defense and turnovers. If they play more zone defense that should limit penetration and allow the front court to help on defense.

Limiting turnovers would go a long way to stem the bloodletting. There's little you can do when the opposing team's offense strips the ball in the open court and gets an uncontested layup. Sistare, G.Smith, and even Flemming have been the ones who valued the ball the most. The ball is not moving and there is a lot of unnecessary unskilled dribbling. In the games I've seen there has been next to no advancing the ball up court via pass even when there is an open man. That is hindering the space and pace component of what Coach McLaughlin stated he wanted this year.

We'll see what adjustments they make versus ODU, another very good team.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
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Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Longwood
11-30-16 04:16 PM - Post#214457    
    In response to hoopla

I was poking around KenPom's Dartmouth data and found this interesting. At Wes' proposed position the Big Green ranks 345 out of 351 in scoring and 326 in defensive rebounding. Improvement in both areas would be optimal but since we're not getting clobbered on the boards I'd argue the need for more offense at that position with only a touch more rebounding.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 486

Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
11-30-16 04:35 PM - Post#214460    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

I think Wes might actually score 6 to 10 a game on offensive rebound put backs. He is a good defender and a natural shot blocker who would help protect the rim. This might help provide a better defensive foundation, which might help our overall half court D. His jumper isn't pretty and he's not at all an offensive threat in a traditional way, but last year, the team seemed go on nice runs when he was in.

I agree the guards aren't guarding as well as they can or need to.

I agree our offense isn't looking very good and Evan needs relief. Between Wright, Johnson, and G. Smith (as well as Fleming who won't get by you but hits the open shot and Sistare who can get to the rim out of pure determination) I am sure they will figure it out and provide some relief for Evan. Are they running many special sets for Evan?

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
12-01-16 12:47 AM - Post#214537    
    In response to hoopla

I think Evan is option 1, 2, and 3 LOL
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
12-01-16 12:13 PM - Post#214568    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Longtime follower here, just getting into the posting game. As someone who spends a lot of time with the team (Grad student), this start to the season is a huge disappointment.

Our defense is horrible (I'm starting to miss Cormier) and Boudreaux is the only viable scoring option on the team. The only bright side is that as of ODU last night, we are losing by less. I can't imagine much will change moving forward.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
12-01-16 03:24 PM - Post#214592    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

Glad to have you here. It will be nice having insider insight into our team!
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
Go Green 
PhD Student
Posts: 1124

Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
12-01-16 03:37 PM - Post#214597    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball


I'll accept that if we played like we did against ODU at the Longwood and Marist games, we would have won. But that's not the way it works.

If Boudreaux can't go for whatever reason, we won't have a prayer against anyone.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
12-01-16 06:38 PM - Post#214617    
    In response to Go Green

I can't argue with that. We've put a lot on Evan's shoulders. It showed in the ODU game. They basically had every guy have a foot in the paint and a double team at the ready to stop Evan. He still managed to get double digit scoring and nearly rebounds though.

We have scoring away from Evan, but everything goes through him, which it should. However, that's not going to help if we ever have to play without him for any length of time.

I think the ODU game helped loosen these guys up. They were playing super tight. I think the freedom to play hard a foul and then be able to get back on the floor again gave the guys more rope.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
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