Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8343
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-16 05:29 PM - Post#214469
In response to palestra38
Brodeur also looked good yesterday.
Howard was MIA, as was MacDonald.
I see MacDonald as someone who could be very effective against lesser teams, but his game wasn't going to work against these guys. As for Howard, he wasn't MIA. I seem to remember you saying he was one of the few guys who looked like he belonged on the court last night. His problem was that he kept driving the lane in the first half and kept getting denied by Nova's bigs inside. After that, he got gun shy and was not willing to take the fouls as you also pointed out. He drained a 3 or two late in garbage time FWIW.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32910
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-16 05:44 PM - Post#214471
In response to Streamers
I never said that yesterday. I did comment on how he was the best player on the court at Navy. But yesterday, I said he needed to do something....and it didn't happen.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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11-30-16 06:15 PM - Post#214475
In response to Buckeye Quake
I actually like MacDonald's game -- I just think we need to see a more aggressive version of it.
With Wood, last night may not have been indicative of what we'll see from anybody in most games, but I was a little disappointed that Wood was still turning it over even with Foreman and Silpe taking the PG pressure off. Somewhere between what MacDonald and Wood are doing is what I'm looking for from both guys.
Agreed that Foreman played the best of the guards last night, at least on offense. Still small on the sample size on the Donahue/Foreman debate, but the longer he goes with the highest ORAT among the guards, the closer I come to being convinced.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8343
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-16 06:34 PM - Post#214476
In response to palestra38
I stand corrected. But you did make the comment about taking fouls, no?
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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11-30-16 09:19 PM - Post#214496
In response to Streamers
Count me as one who wants to see a little more time for Silpe.
As for Caleb, considering where he was playing last year can we really be surprised that his game has deficiencies? Let just hope his turnover rate improves because we badly need his scoring.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-30-16 09:55 PM - Post#214507
In response to SomeGuy
I think the debate if there is one is Donahue/Wood now SG.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-30-16 11:48 PM - Post#214532
In response to Buckeye Quake
I didn't see this game, but Wood is the only guy on the team who makes bringing the ball up the court look easy. He made a lot of turnovers in the prior games, but many weren't the clueless type. They were just the type that you have when a team is still getting to know each other. That is what we should expect with a transfer. He looks night and day better to me than Donahue, Foreman, and Silpe combined. We're always a better team with him on the court than his subs.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-01-16 10:31 AM - Post#214549
In response to Penndemonium
I like Wood; but Foreman & Silpe had better games against Nova. Donahue hit some early threes from behind the chairback seats; but cooled off considerably in the second half.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-01-16 10:53 AM - Post#214551
In response to Penndemonium
He may have regressed Tuesday night but Wood is still a nice player. Foreman is the only true point on this team right now. If AW returns we'll see.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-01-16 11:11 AM - Post#214555
In response to Buckeye Quake
Could be. I continue to think that we've played our best basketball overall with Brodeur/Howard/MacDonald/ Donahue/Wood on the floor, but Foreman undoubtedly helps with some of that groups weaknesses. For rebounding and defense, I prefer not to play Foreman and Donahue at the same time, regardless of their playing very different offensive roles. So my preference right now is for Foreman to split time with Donahue (Foreman is the 1 when he plays, Wood is the 1 with Donahue) and for either Hamilton or Jones to backup Howard/MacDonald/Wood.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-01-16 11:28 AM - Post#214557
In response to SomeGuy
I'd play Foreman and Hamilton rather than Donahue and MacDonald.
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4526
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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12-01-16 11:30 AM - Post#214558
In response to SomeGuy
Should be an interesting year, as Steve Donahue figures out a rotation and the right combination of players for the different situations. I like both Silpe and Hamilton coming off the bench, I just don't know where they fit in with this team in the long run -- both this year and in future years?
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-01-16 11:44 AM - Post#214562
In response to Buckeye Quake
To me, more minutes for Hamilton depends on his ability to hit the 3. Right now, it looks to me like he's not playing the offense (though he often is getting thrust into Howard's little big man role, so maybe that's not fair). I like the energy Hamilton brings in short doses, but I'm not sure he's a fit for what Donahue wants to do down the line. Neither he nor Sam Jones is a complete player, so I think you pick your spots for both guys spelling our 3 big guards.
To me, MacDonald is much closer to a complete player -- I think we rebound and defend a lot better when he is on the floor, and he does a lot of the little things that make a team win. Not sure where he learned to spin the ball sideways on his shot though.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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12-01-16 12:06 PM - Post#214566
In response to SomeGuy
Per sports-reference Foreman has the highest win shares on the team and 3rd highest PER (no surprise the other two top players are Howard and Brodeur). Hamilton is 4th in in both. Wood rates low due to his ghastly turnover rate. So there seems to be merit in playing Foreman more at PG, sliding Wood to SG where his strengths will play up, and giving Hamilton more minutes.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-01-16 12:43 PM - Post#214576
In response to TheLine
Makes sense to me TL. And I'm not much of an analytics guy. Like Sonny Hill likes to say, I still trust my eyes. 
Saturday will be another good test of who can play at this level. Fran has his kids playing very well and will present some backcourt challenges that even Villanova didn't.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-01-16 01:05 PM - Post#214578
In response to Buckeye Quake
I think the "at this level" question is a tricky one. Sometimes the matchups don't work as you'd think. Sometimes it pays to be a little less athletic against the high majors and play a different game from the game they play (which might explain why Donahue has scored points against 'Nova the last two years). Hamilton's been interesting in this regard. He looked like he could handle the athleticism of 'Nova and Miami better than a lot of our guys, but he also was a guy who stuck out in a positive way against Princeton last year (when our more athletic players sometimes look overmatched against them).
Any way, in regard to level, who matches up well against 'Nova and Temple may not be the same guys who are best suited to beating Cornell and Columbia (or even Harvard and Yale). Hopefully we're getting a good sense of who we should play most in the NCAAs in March.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Nova
12-01-16 01:38 PM - Post#214580
In response to Buckeye Quake
My eyes say that Howard, Brodeur and Wood are lock starters. Wood is a stopgap solution at PG but would be a great solution at SG. Foreman has earned a look as starting PG, I also wouldn't mind seeing more of Silpe at PG.
The fifth starting spot could go to either McDonald or Hamilton with Jones also in the mix - let's see who steps up among those 3.
I like the idea of Donahue as someone you run out there once the other team's starters are tired. He needs the extra time to get his shot off. When he's not scoring he's not an asset.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-01-16 02:12 PM - Post#214584
In response to TheLine
another request for a link to ORATs. thanks stu for your efficiency numbers though. very helpful.
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PhillyPantsAC
Freshman
Posts: 55
Age: 39
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 02-09-11
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12-01-16 02:28 PM - Post#214585
In response to Jeff2sf
Can't provide a link, but I subscribe to KenPom and have the ORATs for MacDonald:
2014 @ FD: 103.1
2015 @ FD: 111.0
2017 @ UP: 96.1
Pen KenPom, Darnell leads the team so far with a 115.3 ORAT, followed by Matt Howard (112.9) and AJ Brodeur (101.7).
In very limited minutes, reserves Sam Jones (120.5), Jake Silpe (107.7) and Tyler Hamilton (104.3) have also posted 100+ ORATs through the first 5 games.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-01-16 03:18 PM - Post#214588
In response to Jeff2sf
Jeff -- sports reference still has it. Look at the per 100 possessions chart.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/pennsy...
Why you would put it there is a mystery to me, but that's where it is.
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