bradley
PhD Student
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Age: 74
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12-20-16 03:00 PM - Post#216297
Now, the Tigers face a fast paced run and gun guard orientated offense that is a good three pointing shooting team. They are quick and very good with a nine game winning streak. Monmouth beat Memphis in their last game on the road and Memphis just beat Oklahoma.
Based on their style of play, this game may be the most risky game as to getting out of control.
Joe Lunardi who was interviewed at the St. Joe/Princeton game basically confirmed that the Tigers and any other Ivy League team will not be getting a second Ivy League bid. He specifically discussed the performance of Princeton and Harvard to date and indicated that the Ivy League has been disappointing based on his positive pre-season prediction as to the League.
It would be a great time for the Tigers to put a stake in the ground and declare that enough is enough!
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 04:19 PM - Post#216303
In response to bradley
The Tigers need to do something to stop penetration without giving up the rim or the three-point line. The Hawks are feeling very good about themselves and coming in with lots of confidence:
http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/ monmouth-u...
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SRP
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12-20-16 08:11 PM - Post#216316
In response to SRP
13-5 start for PU is pretty good. Cannady looking ultra-confident on his shot, a nice backdoor to Cook, and mostly good defense to start.
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 08:30 PM - Post#216318
In response to SRP
33-23, not too shabby. Cannady being maybe just a shade too aggressive, but on the whole he's been a great option, knocking down treys at a high percentage. A Bell drive to the hoop for a score--yay!. Brennan looking great so far, good D on the whole except for leaving their one standstill sharpshooter alone twice. Also surviving without Weisz on the floor with two fouls. (Officials not helping PU too much. Monmouth's Tilghman pushed off with his off hand blatantly and still got a block call, while Stephens got mugged and called for traveling.)
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 08:39 PM - Post#216319
In response to SRP
Long scoring drought, now only up 35-33 after leaving the three-point shooter alone again. Some bad mid-range jumpers taken; team struggling without Weisz. Stephens playing terrific defense, getting a block on a 6'11'' guy at the rim, closing out on the perimeter, generally causing havoc.
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SRP
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12-20-16 08:50 PM - Post#216320
In response to SRP
Terrible close of the half, with several unforced TOs. Monmouth up one 39-38. Lots of cases of the Tigers interfering with one another on loose balls and rebounds, losing possessions. Until a couple of calls against the Hawks near the end of the half, the officiating really favored them, the most absurd being the one where the Monmouth defensive player attacked Stephens from behind and crashed over his unmoving leg after deflecting the ball.
So far, another case of a game where Princeton looks good when it's forcing turnovers and bad when it's making them.
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SRP
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12-20-16 09:12 PM - Post#216323
In response to SRP
Team looks a lot better in second half start with Weisz out there. Force two TOs, give one back, but running pretty good fast-break and now up one at 48-47.
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SRP
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12-20-16 09:24 PM - Post#216325
In response to SRP
Miller draws a charge, but it gets called a block. Even the Monmouth announcers (very fair overall) flag it as a blown call.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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12-20-16 09:33 PM - Post#216326
In response to SRP
Why do these guys insist on passing around the perimeter for 20 seconds before then taking the 25 footer?
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SRP
Postdoc
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Reg: 02-04-06
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12-20-16 09:34 PM - Post#216327
In response to SRP
Monmouth goes zone, gets a couple of stops, and hits two long threes from straightaway to take a one-point lead. Got to find those jump shooters. Need to move the ball a bit more against the zone--looks like there might be a hole or two inside where it could be forced to collapse for a kick out.
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sparman
PhD Student
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Reg: 12-08-04
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12-20-16 09:40 PM - Post#216328
In response to SRP
We can make a polar vortex look like a warm summer breeze.
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 09:46 PM - Post#216329
In response to sparman
Five minutes without scoring on like eight shots is aggravating; at least four of those shots were terrific looks.
Bell, Cook, and now Cannady get fouled while shooting, the latter two making it anyway. Only down five with Cannady going to the line, 3:41 left, so the Tigers not out of it yet.
Robinson for the Hawks looks like the guy we've heard about in the last ten minutes.
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sparman
PhD Student
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Reg: 12-08-04
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12-20-16 09:51 PM - Post#216330
In response to SRP
The famous 1 on 4 break. If you're not Geoff Petrie, it's probably not a good choice.
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 09:59 PM - Post#216331
In response to sparman
Yeah, that was bad. Down four with :32 left, the Hawks hitting all their FTs and PU only getting twos. Got to get a steal or hit a three sometime.
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 10:01 PM - Post#216332
In response to SRP
Bad turnover miscue on the sideline, receiver had his back turned to the ball. But the Hawks miss both and then foul PU on the other end.
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SRP
Postdoc
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12-20-16 10:12 PM - Post#216334
In response to SRP
When you put up 90 and play mostly pretty good D, you do have to tip your hat to the opponent's terrific offense. You can easily see how Monmouth could give a lot of high-major teams trouble because of Robinson's ability to do it by himself with a hand in his face, off-balance, etc., while committing very few turnovers and getting scoring help from Hornbeak, Tilghman, etc. (They're not a great defensive team on tonight's performance, but they do hustle.)
Tough way to lose with Cannady and Cook playing well, along with a lot of other guys (Bell, Brennan, Weisz, etc.). That stretch of turnovers in the first half and the sequence of missed wide-open threes in the second told the tale.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-20-16 11:07 PM - Post#216336
In response to SRP
After the poor play at home against St. Joe's, Princeton came out very strong. Next to the 16-0 run against VCU, best 12 minutes of the season with a 33-23 lead. I thought that the Tigers played very hard and well with bad lapses in the last 5 minutes of the 1st half and at the end of the game.
Cook, Cannady, Stephens and Weisz can really play but they have not been able to finish. It was encouraging to see the play of Brennan and Miller and Henderson actually used them both at the same time for 2 minutes. Weisz 3 fouls in the 1st half really hurt as Bell played a lot of minutes and the offense slows down when he is in the game.
Overall, it was an encouraging game relative to getting ready for the Ivy League season. If the Tigers play like tonight, they will be competitive in the Ivy League --- big if???
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-20-16 11:55 PM - Post#216338
In response to bradley
Game outcomes becoming depressingly predictable.
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bradley
PhD Student
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Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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12-21-16 09:31 AM - Post#216340
In response to Tiger69
You are absolutely correct that the outcome is similar to all other losses. Tigers are tied or have a lead with less than 6 minutes to go on the road against good teams. Monmouth is a very good team and maybe either VCU or Monmouth are the two best teams that Princeton has played.
There was improvement last night both offensively, defensively and rebounding. Let's see if they go on a run starting with Bucknell tomorrow night on the road. It will be their last challenging non-conference game.
I do believe after watching the replay that Bell is an issue as to his poor shooting but more importantly how he slows the offense down. I would give Morales or Raynor a try.
With Caruso and Brase, it has forced Cook, Cannady and Stephens to step up and they have.
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Silver Maple
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12-21-16 11:11 AM - Post#216356
In response to bradley
There was improvement last night both offensively, defensively and rebounding.
Guys--Princeton gave up 96 points last night. They almost got cheesesteaked. Monmouth shot 49%, 48% from 3, and only committed 13 TOs (amazing considering the number of possessions in the game). While I agree that there were probably discernible improvements for Princeton on the offensive side of the ball (after all, they scored 90), I'm skeptical that you can say that there was evidence of defensive improvement.
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1LotteryPick1969
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12-21-16 11:44 AM - Post#216359
In response to Silver Maple
Exactly what I had planned on posting, although far more eloquently expressed.
Could not watch the game, but the score suggests defense was very poor.
Any comments about Miller's play from those who watched?
Is it fair to conclude that Cannady is not as good a defender as Bell?
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Tiger69
Postdoc
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Reg: 11-23-04
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Monmouth 12-21-16 01:42 PM - Post#216367
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Like a couple of other Tiger fans I am the eternal optimist, starting every season undefeated and somehow reaching the NCAAs and the improbable ... no, impossible ... National Championship. As the season progresses, reality sets in. I have reached that point this year. And, despite what a couple of Harvard and Penn fans on this board may argue, a National Championship for any Ivy, at least in basketball, will never happen in this world.
So, the real goal is to win the crown, the Ivy Crown, and perform respectably enough in post season so that athletic prospects, intelligent enough to handle an Ivy education, will not be put off by the level of play in our league.
So, Go Tigers! Win the Ivies (and,if we must, the silly pre-tournament tournament ), then win a couple at the Big Dance to nurture our illusions.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Monmouth 12-21-16 03:59 PM - Post#216371
In response to Tiger69
Welcome back to Earth. And the losses suffered by Princeton in no way have hurt its chances for an Ivy title. While I agree with your disdain for an Ivy Tournament, it is indeed here, and given the rather serious injuries the Tigers have suffered, they may benefit from its existence this year.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
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Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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12-21-16 05:44 PM - Post#216378
In response to Silver Maple
Rebounding will be a major issue going forward, especially without Caruso and Brase. The Tigers had only 4 offensive rebounds last night which is not a big problem when you are making 45% of your shots. I hate to say that Bell hurts the team, but Cannady's offense more than makes up for his defensive shortcomings. Bell misses too many shots to justify a lot of minutes. Weisz happened to get into foul trouble last night, resulting in Bell being on the floor. Brennan may be coming around, thank goodness. Miller is what he is, he can't score but he defends and rebounds. Bucknell is another difficult test.
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SomeGuy
Professor
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Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Monmouth 12-21-16 05:51 PM - Post#216381
In response to Tiger69
Your opening (except for the national championship) is what I would call the '90s Princeton fan problem. When you have a good team, your expectation is an undefeated league season and a near undefeated OOC season. The '97 team might not be 4-6 against this year's schedule, but it would have had multiple losses. The landscape is different, and the league (at least HYPP) have challenged themselves a lot (and on the road) this season (and in a comparative down year, particularly once you take injuries into account).
Princeton has played a very hard schedule, almost exclusively on the road. Yes, it would look a lot better if they pulled one out. But better Ivy teams have gotten blown out in similar environments, too -- the Tigers have had a chance in every one of those games.
So I think the way they've played on the court is actually enough to win the league, even if they don't play better in conference.
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bradley
PhD Student
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Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Monmouth 12-21-16 07:30 PM - Post#216386
In response to Tiger69
If you gave me the choice that the Tigers would win either the regular IL season or the IL tournament, I would take the regular season crown.
It will be a more significant accomplishment if they win the regular season crown than the tournament considering the injuries and what it takes to play well over 14 games.
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SRP
Postdoc
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Monmouth 12-21-16 08:06 PM - Post#216387
In response to bradley
Having watched the game, I have to disagree about two things:
Bell was better in this game than in previous games on both ends of the floor, although he missed a couple of tough jumpers late in the shot clock. He also slashed to the rim successfully a few times and looked more like his old self, although not back all the way.
Second, even though I am generally a harsh judge about PU's defense, they really weren't that bad against Monmouth. The Hawks' shooting percentage was abnormally high due to making some very tough shots and/or difficult offensive one-on-one moves and due to getting a bunch of chippies after turnovers and when the Tigers got desperate at the end and pressed. Sure, there were a few lapses I'd like to have back, but for them most part Monmouth earned everything it got. (I do still feel that Princeton looks a lot better when it is employing ball pressure in the half court and making the other team a bit uncomfortable, even if that gives up the occasional penetration.)
Edited by SRP on 12-21-16 08:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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