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Username Post: Zena and/or Lewis        (Topic#19704)
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-01-17 09:10 PM - Post#217164    

Wondering if there are any stats on the few times Zena and Lewis have played together. Seems they've mostly played at different times, but lately I've noticed they've been on the court together.

In the aggregate, they're playing only 33 mpg, and averaging a combined 13.2ppg, 11.8rbg and making almost 59% of their shots. They are each, or are close to the leaders in shooting percentage and rpm. Defensively, they may be the best rim protectors in the league, both near the top in bpg.

Regardless, it seems that Tommy realizes he needs them both on the court - at times and I'm wondering how they've fared.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
01-02-17 11:56 AM - Post#217178    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I've got Z and Lewis on the court together for 46 poss of Harvard's 528 this season (9%).

It's not a lot, but Harvard is 47-27 ahead in 46 poss. The big driver is oppt OREB rate (18%), which is 31% when they aren't on the floor together.

At the same time, oppts are only hitting 12% of threes, which would obviously regress over time and they're shooting just 55% from the line. But Harvard is a little better in defense around the rim with those two on the floor together.

The overall numbers are pretty stark, but we'd need to see more sample before declaring those two a stalwart defensive pairing.

Looking at the stats of them separately, though, really it's Z driving the defensive numbers. Lewis without Z is 84 ORAT, 103 DRAT, driven by oppt offensive rebounding rate (35%), which balloons without Z. Z is still 94 ORAT 93 DRAT without Lewis and his without Lewis oppt offensive rebounding rate is 29.5% and oppts are shooting just 35% at the rim.

So, again, there's pretty strong evidence that Z's on court presence makes this team better defensively (even though he tends to struggle with oppt half court offense). It's not so clear that Lewis does, but it's something to monitor over time. The answer could simply be that Z can stand alone as the only big, whereas Lewis is better with another big to help.

Your eyes are not deceiving you, though - Lewis and Z have been insanely good defensively in their 46 poss together on court thus far.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-02-17 12:12 PM - Post#217180    
    In response to mrjames

Thanks!

I wonder if these numbers when teamed together are more impressive as Tommy is likely to pair against larger opponents who are strong around the rim.

I can see that Lewis isn't as dominant defensively when alone. I assumed that's why Tommy usually teamed him with Welsh. Zena's graduation seems likely to leave a vacancy. Good luck to Bamba on his testing! Of course, any of Baker, Dragovich, Egi and even Perez will see more time.

In fact, in conference, I'm thinking Perez should see some more time. He's out of the rotation, but is the remaining 'big' who can make things happen on offense (eg, vs Kansas, Columbia)

 
whitakk 
Sophomore
Posts: 144

Age: 26
Reg: 11-11-14
01-04-17 08:21 PM - Post#217331    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I'd expect primarily small lineups (like Siyani-Aiken-Johnson-Town s-1 big) in Ivy play, given how matchups fall.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
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Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
01-04-17 09:52 PM - Post#217334    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

After watching some of the action in the Vermont game, the Catamounts certainly attacked the hoop successfully. It is surprising that Edosomwan does not get more minutes based on Lewis' interior defense although they also had some success against Zena. Vermont also did a good job of attacking the basket and kicking out to open shooters as well.

I am sure that there is logic as to what Coach Amaker is doing but it seems unconventional. It will probably help that IL teams are smaller and have less skilled bigs.

Vermont gave a pretty good script as to how to run an offense against the Crimson but they are very good and it may have been just been one of those games.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
01-04-17 10:06 PM - Post#217335    
    In response to bradley

Yeah, UVM hit a ton of jumpers and got a ton of lucky OREBs. Harvard outperformed offensively from a luck perspective just to keep up. It was indeed one of those games...

 
bradley 
Masters Student
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Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
01-04-17 11:02 PM - Post#217338    
    In response to mrjames

I am curious to get your take on how good is the Harvard freshmen class as they get near the half way point. They obviously came in with so much hype that many IL basketball fans had very high expectations even in their freshmen year, perhaps unrealistic. After watching a small sample of game action, Aikens, Towns, Bassey and Lewis look very talented but inconsistent which is not unusual for freshmen. I know someone who watched Baker play in high school and he was very complimentary about him as a person but thought that he would be a developmental project even in the Ivy League as he said despite his high school rating.

At the end of the day, I would not be the least bit surprised that Chambers leads the Crimson charge as he is simply a winner and someone who will be very difficult to deny.

I would also be curious to get your input if this freshmen class will be a top 25 team and when. Impossible question perhaps or simply too early to tell. The freshmen do appear to be a work-in-progress at this point and time.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
01-05-17 05:05 PM - Post#217371    
    In response to bradley

This is the deepest, most talented class I've seen in the Ivy League since I started covering it closely in 2002. The Harvard 2011 entering cohort was extremely good (Saunders, Steve, Jonah, Corbin, Kenyatta), but I've never seen anything like what Harvard brought in this year.

I think they'll be juniors when they hit the Top 25. The junior class is extremely weak, so there won't be much help from the seniors next year. The sophomore class has a couple pieces in TMac and Corey, but generally won't carry the team either. And I don't expect a ton out of the gate from the 2017 class - a couple rotation players, but no immediate stars.

When the current frosh are juniors in 18-19 with solid rotation support from the then-sophomore 2017 class and the then-senior 2015 class and what is shaping up to be another big, deep 2018 class - that's when we should really see this Harvard team make a national run. Not that they won't be very good next year, but when we're talking about the lofty levels of the 11-12 and 13-14 teams, I think Harvard is looking more at 18-19 for that.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4127

Reg: 11-22-04
01-05-17 06:45 PM - Post#217387    
    In response to mrjames

Unfortunately for the rest of us, Harvard has been showing signs since early December. I think you guys have a legit shot at winning the league this year (and I mean the regular season). With a young team, things could still go sideways, of course. So a misstep somewhere could snowball. But I also could see Harvard getting on a run and running way from the field.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
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Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
01-05-17 08:14 PM - Post#217393    
    In response to mrjames

Makes good sense what you have outlined. Crimson should dominate the IL league in their junior and senior year with perhaps Yale presenting some challenges if Mason returns healthy and plays two more years. It is unlikely that any other team will be significant competition other than the wild card of the IL tournament.

Certainly, Harvard has an opportunity to win the IL tournament this year especially with Chambers at the helm but it will not be easy as experienced players, ie. Sears and Sherrod, have the will and maturity to win in their senior year. It will be interesting to see if Chambers, Edosomwan, Cook, Weisz, Downey or Howard come through at clutch time. Most puzzling Crimson player is Edosomwan hands down as Harvard supporters think pretty highly of him despite the production in most games but maybe, he will get it together.

 
whitakk 
Sophomore
Posts: 144

Age: 26
Reg: 11-11-14
01-07-17 05:08 PM - Post#217554    
    In response to bradley

Mason stayed at Yale this year, so he should have only one season of Ivy eligibility left. https://twitter.com/currenrr/status/81170 628932364...

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-07-17 05:49 PM - Post#217558    
    In response to whitakk

Not a surprise about Mason. If things go well next year he declares for the draft again. If he doesn't like his chances, he plays as a graduate transfer in a Power 5 conference. Seemed obvious.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Zena and/or Lewis
01-08-17 02:12 PM - Post#217727    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Last night supported Harvard's two headed monster center approach. Lewis effectively backed down Boudreaux for 'baby hooks' and Zena broke to the basket when his man helped for monster dunks. At one point, Zena made a short hook after backing down Boudreaux, the only basket Zena made that wasn't a dunk. A Dartmouth announcer remarked that Zena had been doing that effectively all night to Boudreaux. Actually, it was Lewis who had just hit three 'baby hooks' down low over Boudreaux. Dartmouth announcers seemed more interested in rooting for Dartmouth than analyzing the game and knowing Harvard's players. Coach Murphy's color analysis is almost as one sided as the guy from Brown.

Together, Zena/Lewis played a total of 37 minutes, scoring 21 points on 10-13 shooting, with 3 blocks and 9 rebounds. Very efficient, although I'd like to see Zena play more than just 11 minutes.

Bassey (14pts/6rbs) is really turning out to be a nice contributor which was needed on a night when Aiken was relatively invisible. Siyani had 7 effective assists and scored 12 points. Other than Zena with 2TO's, no Harvard player had more than a single TO.



Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 01-08-17 02:14 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 425

Age: 45
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Zena and/or Lewis
01-08-17 02:26 PM - Post#217730    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I don't have any issues with the announcers being homers, but I agree accuracy in calling the game could be sharper. We had no answer on the inside on either end. That forced us into becoming a jump shooting team. We went big for about 1 minute with Emery on the floor before that was binned and we went small. The outcome speaks for itself.

I was shocked to see Zena's mins shrink from a seniority perspective, but I can see Amaker is developing his young talent aggressively all season and it'll likely pay big in League and in the years to come. I told a colleague that Harvard was Duke lite in the way Amaker approaches the game.

It's going to be tough going into Lavietes and trying to get a W.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Re: Zena and/or Lewis
01-08-17 02:31 PM - Post#217731    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Nice observations. Lewis has more skills in a half court offense, but I still think Zena rebounds and protects the rim like no one else in this league. Disappointed.

Maybe my problem with the announcers is due to being a fan of the opposing team. However, I think announcers should fairly and objectively call the came. Whining about fouls and responding with an "ugh" or "no" instead of describing the play isn't appropriate. We're fans first, but they're being paid to report and announce. Good announcers call the play first and then, upon seeing a replay, can wonder about a call. None of us can accurate see plays call as they happen from off the court - at least not accurately enough to inflict our biased perspective on the viewer.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 01-08-17 02:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3065

Reg: 02-04-06
01-08-17 04:07 PM - Post#217745    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Surprised Towns not mentioned much. In the long run he should be the big gun on this team.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-08-17 04:21 PM - Post#217748    
    In response to SRP

After scoring 24 and 18 against NE and BC and becoming team scoring leader, Seth has struggled, scoring only 6ppg in the last 4 games. Sometimes it has been matchups, other times poor shooting. Seth seems to be drawing tough defensive matchups both ways. Seems he's in foul trouble more often than anyone else. Also, its only 12 games into his college career.

Nice thing about this squad is that there are players at every position capable of scoring. Seth will have his opportunities. Still the second leading scorer on the squad and 19th in the league at 11.3. Harvard depth allows him only 24.8 minutes per game, least of top 19 scorers. 15th leading Ivy scorer in points per minute.



 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Re: Zena and/or Lewis
01-08-17 04:55 PM - Post#217757    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Interesting comparison between stats of Lewis, Bruner and Brodeur. On a 40 minute basis, the three are roughly equivalent over almost every key stat (pp40, rb40, ast40, to40). Brodeur lags behind Bruner and Lewis in block per 40. Lewis is shooting far better at 67.7%. Likely Bruner's and Lewis' stats are limited by playing alongside quality bigs, whereas Brodeur is all Penn has inside. On the other hand, Brodeur is sustaining his levels over longer minutes.

Interesting to see how things play out.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
01-08-17 08:17 PM - Post#217776    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Well, one could argue that Bruner and Lewis' stats are enhanced playing alongside quality bigs. After all, you did use the 40m basis so it's "equalized" in theory. Bruner likely gets better opportunities when Downey is in there and visa versa.

I agree it will be interesting to watch. Some really good freshmen on the floor for these teams.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-09-17 11:24 PM - Post#217893    
    In response to PennFan10

Bruner and Lewis named Ivy League Co-Players of the Week. Maybe I was onto something!

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
01-12-17 03:10 PM - Post#218101    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Correction: Bruner and Lewis were named Ivy League Co-Freshmen of the Week. Cannaday was Player of the Week.

I agree with Mr. Whittaker's assertion that Harvard can play smaller in Ivy games. However, it's starting to look like Bassey's defense might earn him a starting nod. Aiken seems to be recovering from what I hope is a minor injury, and Corey Johnson's inconsistent shooting may lead to his coming off the bench. Probably depends on matchups. Also, I'm hoping Miller is recovering as he was adding a big three every game before he started resting.

Playing one big doesn't bode well for Egi and Welsh, although both could have their moments, especially if either Zena/Lewis pick up early fouls.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Zena and/or Lewis
02-22-17 03:54 PM - Post#223033    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I just noticed Mike James tweet suggesting that Zena leads the league in offensive efficiency. It appears that Amaker has completely reversed offensive philosophy from last year.

No longer does Harvard look to feed the post with the primary goal being for Zena to force things. Now, Harvard looks to move the ball more, employing skip passes and passes off of penetration more often than inside out play. The return of Siyani and the skills of Bryce, Justin and Seth enable this approach. Zena and Chris appear limited to shots of 3 ft or less. In other words, Amaker either wants a bunny or a 3. It looks like only Towns, Chambers and Baker have a green light to shoot 2's that aren't lay ins, layups or dunks.

This is reflected by the fact that Lewis leads the league in FG% at 67% and Zena is 3rd at 55%. Each of Zena and Chris only shoot an average of 4.7 times per game.

I'm wondering if this is more the result of analytics driven coaching by Harvard's staff, or just the reality of having two bigs without range and a bunch of decent 3 point shooters. Perimeter play or penetration by your best ball handlers also avoids some of the TO's endemic to forcing the ball inside.





Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 02-22-17 03:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1984

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Zena and/or Lewis
02-22-17 04:35 PM - Post#223041    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Amaker already has the horses and now he is learning how to use them from watching Princeton play. Successful plan.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-22-17 05:56 PM - Post#223047    
    In response to Tiger69

How about Amaker works with the talent (strengths and weaknesses) he has.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3065

Reg: 02-04-06
Zena and/or Lewis
02-22-17 06:31 PM - Post#223050    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Teams all over college and pro basketball are cutting back on the mid-range two. There is a host of information about this, and Mike has mentioned it repeatedly. Here's just one example from last year:
https://sports.vice.com/en_au/article/numbers -game...

Edited by SRP on 02-22-17 06:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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