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Username Post: Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online        (Topic#19706)
dmbkfan 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 3

Reg: 11-07-16
01-10-17 05:30 PM - Post#217933    
    In response to hoopla

So, I'm looking at the Hollinger Ivy League PER at http://insider.espn.com/ncb/hollinger/statist ics/_...

Our top guy is Brendan Barry at #13 overall in the Ivy. That's impressive! After that it goes Evan at 18, Guilien at 26, Wes at 30, Miles at 44. Shouldn't those be our starters? Mike F is doing his best, but he's not even in the top 60 on the PER. We need points and production. The PER is a pretty good indicator of a player's offensive and defensive contributions to a team's success. I'm not sure if the coaches look at these numbers, but I hope they do. The more Barry is out there, the better the team runs and produces. Sistare as well. Let's get this team winning coaches!

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-10-17 07:32 PM - Post#217945    
    In response to dmbkfan

I think that is a good benchmark. Barry's numbers definitely make the case. Fleming is solid, steady, and there something to be said for senior leadership. But, he's not a scoring point guard but he is a good facilitator and does a good job of taking care of the ball. There's a case for his minutes, but Barry is coming on strong. Outside of that non statistical metric, I could see allocating starter minutes based on PER.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
dmbkfan 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 3

Reg: 11-07-16
01-10-17 07:41 PM - Post#217947    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

We need wins. Let's mix up the rotation a bit to try it. Against Harvard we're on a roll and up 16-10, but the coaches take 3 of the 5 guys out who got us to that point. Doesn't make sense.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-10-17 09:40 PM - Post#217957    
    In response to dmbkfan

We get another crack at Harvard. It will be interesting to see what, if any adjustments we make. Harvard just ground us down, particularly our star Evan. We kinda helped them by playing Evan basically the whole game. We need a big game from someone away from Evan if we're going to win. That pretty much narrows it down to Guilien or Miles. Those are the only other players who are permitted that many touches. Maybe if Barry heats up from deep he might get the green light.

The FGA data to date say Evan, Miles, and Guilien are going to take 59% of the attempts. That's 34 of our 57.8 attempts per game. So they need to be on or someone else has to breakout. Our restricted offensive depth hurts because Evan is subject to double teams. Evans buckets are all hard won.

Teams basically know where we're going. We are playing through Evan. Conversely, Harvard rolled out the whole team and got production from everyone who touched the floor. Their attempts are way less concentrated. They also shoot a higher percentage. So, to win we have to be better defensively for the entire game. Although our defense has improved it's not of that caliber. They are going to go at Evan again and wear him down. So it'll be interesting how we scheme against that or mix it up as you said.



"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-12-17 02:57 PM - Post#218099    
    In response to hoopla

Here's another great stats database to delve into.

Emery & Carter lead the team in percentage completion at the rim at 75.0% and 85.7% respectively. Ian Sistare is right there too at 72.7%. Getting easy buckets at the rim is good but better when you can finish at a high rate.

Hoop Math - Dartmouth
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 486

Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
01-13-17 03:40 PM - Post#218180    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Are we really playing THROUGH Evan?

Stats seem to indicate that the ball stops at Evan and he ends up using the possession... Less than 1 assist

Stats would indicate that the only time we are playing through him is when we get an O board off a Boudreaux miss

I think we should find a way to play through him and coaches might need to work with him on this, but not sure this fine concept is actually happening

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-14-17 04:09 PM - Post#218279    
    In response to hoopla

You're right the numbers don't lie. This wouldn't be the first time in the history of sport where the coach says one thing and does another. I think they would like to play through Evan, but they default to having him get buckets. Of the three games we've won, Evan has been the leading scorer in one. That game was won by the slimmest margin, 1pt. When they know where you're going to go it makes it easy to scheme against you.

If you read Amaker's post game comments he was very clear on the strategy. If you ever read any of the pre game notes for the opposing teams it's clear they key in on Evan.
"...no excuses - only results!”


Edited by GoBigGreenBasketball on 01-14-17 04:12 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
01-15-17 08:53 AM - Post#218373    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Nice to be back after a little hiatus and see nothing has changed :). We've come a long way from the sky is falling, fire the coach times and after spending time with the team over winterim I think everyone has fully bought into the system (as someone mentioned ^). Lots to cover below:

To kick this off with a bang, and I hate to say it, but you cant realistically expect this team to make the 4 game playoff. I don't think there was any indication that they should have been top 4 this season ( I had them pegged at 5th coming in), especially with a new coach and almost no upperclassmen production. Now as we enter Ivy Play- it should be about developing players (also playing the best players, but I also think they are the freshman).

As for the strategy now. McLaughlin has them playing through Boudreaux. (and continues to state that it is the goal). Like it or not, possessions run through him and rightfully so.


- The picking on the assists number doesnt seem like a great metric as the team is averaging 10 assists per game (8th in the league) and having watched film on them, most of them result in that second pass out of a Boudreaux double-team. He needs to get better at anticipating those situations, but I'd argue that his court vision and passing is way better this year, we just dont seem to take or make those shots.

-Playing through him, like you said, is also contributing to a decline in his numbers. He spends 70% of possessions just rotating around the 3 point line, setting ball screens. I don't think this is his game.

-My god I need another post player. Can we just find some 6'10 kid and have him stand inside?

-I don't have any empirical evidence, but it feels like this team takes bad shots, at bad times in the possession. Would love to see statistics on this.

These are my assorted musings, playing on some knowledge of the team. My apologies if they seem disjointed- having an early Sunday morning.

TLDR:
-Play the freshman, good things will happen. Barry is the man.
-We probably arent making the tourny, but it's still a long season ahead
-Boudreaux's regression is to be expected, especially since he is Atlas-ing the team.
-We need a center, Boudreaux is more like a 3 playing out of position
-Take better shots, our offense is tough to watch
-Also glad to see Hollingers PER getting some love

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-15-17 10:07 AM - Post#218383    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
especially with a new coach and almost no upperclassmen production. Now as we enter Ivy Play- it should be about developing players (also playing the best players, but I also think they are the freshman).




Do you really believe the freshman are the best players and why? And if the freshman are the best players why hasn't Coach been playing them like they're the best players, especially when that's what his competition has been playing?
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-15-17 10:58 PM - Post#218451    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

How many made dunk do we have this year?

I found an interesting stat on %made baskets at the rim coming in transition:

Johnson: 55.6%
Wright: 36.7%
Carter: 33.3%
Smith: 29.2%
Sistare: 25.0%
Barry: 20.0%

Boudreaux: 14.3%
Dickinson: 5.6%
Fleming: 0.0%
Ngwudo: 0.0%
Emery: 0.0%


"...no excuses - only results!”


 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
01-16-17 08:34 AM - Post#218467    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

I don't have access to stats right now since I'm traveling, but from just watching? I think the freshman want it more.

I think Barry and Sistare (off the bench) are the best guard options right now, and I dont see a reason not to start Emery at the 5. It is not like we are going to get less production than what we have.

For my optimal starting 5 perspective with rationals for each (unsupported by stats at this moment):

Barry- Heady PG that has shown to have great passing ability. Seems to take care of the ball pretty well and starting to become more vocal.

Smith- Talented slasher, but not a PG. Would be served better off the ball as he doesnt tend to make great passes. Not optimal for bringing ball up the court, gets pocket picked a decent amount.

Boudreaux- Boudreaux at the 3 is my dream. I feel like it is his natural position and will allow him to get better looks offensively. He shouldnt have be banging up against 6"9, 6"10 kids every game.

Dickinson-Solid defensive presence, improving post moves. I'd argue that he is pretty interchangable with Ike, and Carter. Could be at the 4, or 5 depending on the matchip.

Emery- Big, getting more aggressive. Ability to stretch the floor more than you would imagine. Emery should be starting at the 4 or 5 and I see no reason why not.

and finally, Miles as a supersub. IMO Miles is too inconsistent offensively and defensively (especially defensively) to start.



 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-16-17 12:05 PM - Post#218476    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

I like Boudreaux at the 4. He's just not quick enough to play small forward. His skill set is all power forward with a little stretch because of his ability to shoot the 3 ball. I like Emery at the 5 and Wright at the 3 with Carter backing him up. Barry "buckets" at the 1 with Sistare/Fleming backing him up and Smith at the 2.

Your small forward has got to be able to get out in transition. I posted the transition stats earlier and what it clearly shows is that your not going to get transition baskets out of Ike, Wes, or Evan. Wright, G.Smith, Johnson, and Carter are the only ones I've seen play this year that can naturally play the 3.

Here's how I see our team:

Sistare & Fleming are strictly 1s. Barry is a 1/2. G.Smith is a 2-3. C.Smith is a 2. Johnson is 3-2 (HE-IS-NOT-A-PG). Wright is a 3-2. Carter is a 3-4. Evan is a 4-5. Emery is a 5-4, Wes is a 5/4. Ike is a 5. I haven't seen enough of the other guys to have a feel for where they go.

"...no excuses - only results!”


Edited by GoBigGreenBasketball on 01-16-17 12:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
Re: Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-17-17 12:57 AM - Post#218560    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

I'd have to completely disagree on one point. I think Boudreaux is a 3/4 and in no world should he be a 5. We are just forcing him to play there. If you remember his freshman year, he was plenty fast to get down in transition/drive on opposing players. We just dont use him that way anymore. Transition stats arent telling because Boudreaux (and the rest of those guys actually) are the ones fighting for the boards, not leaking out in transition. For a team that doesnt really push the pace anyway, I dont think its a realistic metric.


As for everyone else, I think youre spot on.

Edited by SomeDartmouthStudent on 01-17-17 12:58 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-17-17 02:34 AM - Post#218565    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

We'll agree to disagree. I've never seen him defending guys on the perimeter or taking guys off the dribble from the perimeter. His skill set doesn't fit in the same category as LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Paul George, Gordon Hayward, or Giannis Antetokounmpo. Those are prototypical wings/3s. He's more in the mold of Lemarcus Aldrige, Kevin Love, or Paul Milsap. These Power Forwards mirror his talents.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 486

Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
01-17-17 04:32 PM - Post#218580    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Evan is a highly skilled, fundamentally sound 4. Future Ivy POY.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-17-17 05:34 PM - Post#218584    
    In response to hoopla

  • hoopla Said:
Evan is a highly skilled, fundamentally sound 4. Future Ivy POY.



He is undeniably a 4. Unfortunately on this team he's forced to play out of position.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 486

Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
01-17-17 05:53 PM - Post#218589    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Whatever position he's called is fine with me.

As long as he's in position to take advantage of his remarkable rebounding ability, ability to finish, ability to get fouled, and ability to step out and hit the 3 or put it on the floor vs larger slower opponents on occasion.

I don't like the idea of him as a wing player as that makes it a lot easier on the opponent and isn't maximizing his potential IMO. If I'm going against Dartmouth I'd love for Evan to stay on the outside and shoot more 3s than 2s, which has actually happened this year.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
01-18-17 11:07 AM - Post#218634    
    In response to hoopla

Obviously I'm in the minority, but in Cormiers offense Boudreaux routinely took people off the dribble, often getting fouled. He struggles against length, especially long 4's and 5s.

His strengths are his shooting/ability to stretch the floor, rebound, and draw fouls. I'm ok with him playing 4, but i think hes optimized playing 3. I don't think he should play 5 under any circumstances.

Agree to disagree |:)

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-18-17 11:58 AM - Post#218640    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

Fair enough, we can always agree to disagree.

What I will submit to everyone, is that it doesn't matter where we think he should play. It matters most what Evan thinks he is. His skill level allows him to play multiple positions i.e 3/4/5. Guys play best when what they think they are matches up with what the coaches think they are. Everyone's on the same page and it's easier to get maximum effort that way. versus trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
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