GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-02-17 12:25 PM - Post#217181
IHO places the Big Green at 7th in their Power Rankings after a strong December showing. Here's what they had to say:
7. Dartmouth (3-9)
How quickly seasons can turn. A 0-9 start has given way to a three-game win streak, including a solid (and thrilling) 63-62 upset of New Hampshire at Leede Arena on New Year’s Eve. In the UNH win, Dartmouth continued to enjoy significant contributions from sophomore guard Guilien Smith and Evan Boudreaux posted another double-double. But it’s been Dartmouth’s defense making the difference lately, and points figure to come at quite a premium in Saturday’s Dartmouth-Harvard matchup.
Read more about IHO's take on the Big Green here:
Don't look now, but Dartmouth has won three in a row.
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Go Green
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Re: Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-02-17 12:57 PM - Post#217186
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
- GoBigGreenBasketball Said:
IHO places the Big Green at 7th in their Power Rankings after a strong December showing.
Yay!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pbRYljkDFg
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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Re: Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-02-17 02:26 PM - Post#217190
In response to Go Green
LOL....well you can't go 0-9 to the top of the standings on 3 wins. I'll take a don't buy rating versus a Sell, Sell, Sell!!!
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hoopla
Masters Student
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01-03-17 01:27 PM - Post#217247
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Dartmouth is a top 4 in Ivy team. Every bit as good as Penn and Columbia, if not better. Better than Brown and Cornell. We should accept nothing less. This was the case when they were 0-9 and it's the case now with them 3-9. The difference is that now they are playing smarter and much closer to their potential. The freshman are coming on too. There will be more ups and downs throughout the season, but I believe we are out of the danger zone. We will have to weather some more storms to stay out of the danger zone, and continue moving away from it, but they've shown they have the fortitude to do so. Also, Wes Dickinson.
This is a great year for Dartmouth (and Penn) because of all the injuries to teams above them. Palestra or bust! And with all the injuries to others, we can win this league tournament.
An interesting observation is that they haven't been overly reliant on Boudreaux during this win streak (and I think they've slowed things down). In fact, as Boudreaux has struggled the team has done thrived, whereas thru the first 9 games it was the opposite. I doubt there is a direct correlation, and we obviously need Evan to continue being Evan, but I'm tracking this.
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hoopla
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01-03-17 01:38 PM - Post#217248
In response to hoopla
P.S. Holy cow. Checking in after a long hiatus from posting and I just have to say: Let's remember the season is a marathon, the program is a living organism that will go through good and bad changes. McLaughlin is doing better now; but he still needs time to continue improving and getting us back to our trajectory. After the Maine game people were calling for his head! That is crazy (even if they hadn't won their last 3)! I recommend deep breaths before posting after wins and losses.
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Go Green
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01-03-17 07:50 PM - Post#217282
In response to hoopla
I recommend deep breaths before posting after wins and losses.
Starting the season with nine losses would try even a Jedi's patience.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-05-17 09:20 PM - Post#217409
In response to hoopla
Also, Wes Dickinson.
I know you're a big Wes fan. Wes has been SOLID, but Carter is the future. Much like the first time I saw Barry play for the Big Green, I could tell Carter was a player! On a per 40/100 Carter leads Wes and Ike in blocks, steals, and 2pt percentage. Wes is better from 3. But it's clear to me that Carter is more skilled than either. The rebound differential (1.1 & 1.2 respectively per game) is negligible between Wes 2.2, Ike 2.3, and Carter 1.1.
Carter gets lost at times on defense. That's probably why we don't see him much, but he is a freshman. The only way to remedy that is to play through it and coach'em up.
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hoopla
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01-09-17 10:44 AM - Post#217798
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Yes, I'm a fan of Wes, but also a big fan of Ian. I think they are different types. I think Wes offers the rim protection we need and defense. He delivers easy buckets around the rim and is hitting his FTs. I agree that Ian is part of our bright future, but I maintain that the future is NOW. We should be 7-7 at a minimum and top 4 Ivy. I don't fault the coach, but can't stand the unnecessary drop. We should be competitive with Harvard, as they are just as young as us, and we'd beaten them 2 out of the last 3 prior to Saturday. We are playing better, but we haven fallen way back from where we left off. There were no "cakewalks" for opponents coming in to Leede. I think Ian might be a better replacement for Ike than Wes. Why is Evan only shooting 36% and averaging less than 1 assist per game? Why is his FT% also down 10%. Somehow we need to make life easier for him. As great as he has been, all his numbers (including Ppg and Rpg) are down except for TOs, FGA, and 3 pt % and 3PA.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-09-17 01:23 PM - Post#217817
In response to hoopla
I agree that the future is now. I offer the Dartmouth/Harvard game as evidence. They beat us with young talent that got lots of PT in the non conference. I think it took us too long to get talent like Barry going. Improvement is a gradual thing, that said the differential between where he was when he got to campus to where he is now cannot be that great skill wise. Pedigree aside, I would argue that he should have been taking his lumps right out the gate with more PT, versus other turnover prone point guards. Emery has shown an aggressiveness that needed to be nurtured/tested on the floor against nonconference competition more frequently. It feels like we're behind on the development front. Young talent needs reps. Again I throw Harvard out as an example. Endowsans<sp> minutes are down, he and Chambers were projected to be the top players on that team, but clearly from our matchup and season stats that has not been the case. Amaker beat us with his young guys. The bench scoring differential was 30 to 18 with Barry (12pts) and Sistare (6pts).
As far as Evan goes he's being forced to shoulder the burden, and he's doing a yeoman's job. However, there is only so much one guy can do. You can see his frustration building. I suspect that has a lot to do with his performance. I though he made a great adjustment in the last game moving to the outside and going 3 for 6 from deep. To ask him to do more is unrealistic. Someone else has to step up in the front court. Outside of his rebounding neither Wes, Emery, Ike, or Ian are providing much help. In the Harvard game we were swatting at the ball instead of trying to grab it with two hands. That's not going to get it done. When Evan is matched up with another high caliber big our other guys have to rebound! I think that is where Emery should have been developed. The coach said something I totally agree with after the RI game, that was that they can't simulate size and athleticism in practice, so the only place that guys like Emery can get realistic reps are in games. Evans numbers are going to decline because he doesn't have Connor playing alongside of him. The fact that he still manages to get a double-double with the defenses keying on him is incredible.
Coming back to the win now idea. If you look at the increase in production over the previous year's performance for the front court seniors, I struggle make a case for win now. The individual improvement you should see from seniors with increased PT just isn't there. If their all around production were up year over year like Guilien then yes feed them minutes. If it's not, you have to develop guys like Emery quick, because these seniors are gone while Harvard just gets more experienced. Here's the year over year historics:
Wes
Ike
Guilien
To illustrate the point look at the data below. For For 40/100 minutes sort on points. In terms of defensive stats sort on blocks, steals, and rebounds. Then compare Emery, Wes, Ian, and Ike, and keep in mind their class, actual minutes played, total games played, and D1 experience.
Dartmouth Stats
We've got enough games in the books now and the numbers just don't make a compelling case for win now with our current roster and rotation. The Harvard game hammers point that home convincingly.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
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01-09-17 01:47 PM - Post#217819
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
This thread is raising some very interesting points in the advent of the Ivy tournament era. Seems a young team on the bubble to reach the Ivy tournament should use the OOC to play freshmen and determine the best approach to the Ivy Season with the goal being to secure a spot in the top 4. The sacrifice could be giving up on a .500 record and a spot in the CIT, but I would think such an invite to be unlikely if a team didn't qualify for its own postseason league tournament anyway.
A team like Harvard, which is likely feeling somewhat secure about making the Ivy tournament, elected to heavily rely on freshmen OOC and Amaker reiterated this weekend that he is still intentionally trying to play 12 or so players each game. The sacrifice was the distant chance for an at large NCAA bid. As we saw Saturday, don't be surprised to see Harvard continue to shuffle its roster knowing that with confidence in reaching the tournament that final weekend is really the only time to 'maximize.' Zena starting vs Dartmouth was an anomaly, likely for the purpose of having Zena guard Bourdreax. Zena has only started in 6 games and only played 11 minutes Saturday night.
Entering the season, I though Dartmouth could compete with Penn. Penn added two junior transfers on Brodeur, a high usage freshman. Dartmouth has been reluctant to use its freshmen. If you're going to start 0-9, why not experiment?
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-09-17 03:02 PM - Post#217831
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I think Amaker has just adjusted to the new format quicker. OOC games are still crucial but do provide a lab to experiment with lineups and minutes. I'm sure at no point was Harvard not concerned about having a winning record. That Zena's mins are less suggest there's more of a meritocracy.
The numbers are the numbers. Talent is talent. That's the way it is at high majors, if you can't play you don't. That is why there is such a high number of transfers.
In Dartmouth's case, as the coach has said, he's not an expert on his team. But I will agree with you the rotations early in the non conference games just didn't vary enough to get a broader picture. In his defense he did play his freshman during the UNH game to much success, but then he pulled way back from that with Harvard game. Perplexing.
Harvard is playing a different game. They are trying to play and recruit on a different level. They are aggressively trying to steal High Major recruits from the big boys. Princeton is doing the same by hiring Kittles. Yale's success will help them, they are another team that has allowed talented freshman to lead them with Bruner and Oni. Columbia's attempting to get there with their noticeably increased media presence and Tape has become seen more PT as the season has progressed.
I think the #2bidivy was lost pretty soon after Princeton and Yale lost key pieces. I don't believe had Harvard played a more seasoned lineup that they would have secured the second bid for the league. If they did they'd be in the same place as Dartmouth.
There is no substitute for experience and Amaker has made sure his young guys are getting it where it counts, on the floor in games. Kudos. I don't foresee Amaker changing his rotation to much, especially if he can get everyone minutes, everyone produces like they did in the Dartmouth Harvard tilt, and they can continue to win. Why change what's working. Conversely if it ain't working why keep doing it.
In this #PathToThePalestra era  I will give you it is slightly more important to play for those top four spots, but not at all costs. I don't think that you have to sacrifice the OOC to do it. As an aside, where last year was the season of the Senior in the NCAAM this year is clearly the year of the Freshman. This is going to be one of the best freshman classes across the NCAA in recent years, Ivy league included.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-09-17 04:07 PM - Post#217841
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Ivy League
all-kenpom.com
Rank Player
1 Steven Cook, Princeton (Sr)
2 AJ Brodeur, Penn (Fr)
3 Spencer Weisz, Princeton (Sr)
4 Bryce Aiken, Harvard (Fr)
5 Devin Cannady, Princeton (So)
40% OF KP's top players are Freshman and 60% are underclassmen. The ROY race should be interesting. Hopefully Brendan "buckets" Barry gives Dartmouth a shot a third ROY honor.
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hoopla
Masters Student
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Age: 49
Reg: 08-28-12
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01-09-17 05:07 PM - Post#217851
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
- GoBigGreenBasketball Said:
I agree that the future is now. I offer the Dartmouth/Harvard game as evidence. They beat us with young talent that got lots of PT in the non conference. I think it took us too long to get talent like Barry going. Improvement is a gradual thing, that said the differential between where he was when he got to campus to where he is now cannot be that great skill wise. Pedigree aside, I would argue that he should have been taking his lumps right out the gate with more PT, versus other turnover prone point guards. Emery has shown an aggressiveness that needed to be nurtured/tested on the floor against nonconference competition more frequently. It feels like we're behind on the development front. Young talent needs reps. Again I throw Harvard out as an example. Endowsans<sp> minutes are down, he and Chambers were projected to be the top players on that team, but clearly from our matchup and season stats that has not been the case. Amaker beat us with his young guys. The bench scoring differential was 30 to 18 with Barry (12pts) and Sistare (6pts).
As far as Evan goes he's being forced to shoulder the burden, and he's doing a yeoman's job. However, there is only so much one guy can do. You can see his frustration building. I suspect that has a lot to do with his performance. I though he made a great adjustment in the last game moving to the outside and going 3 for 6 from deep. To ask him to do more is unrealistic. Someone else has to step up in the front court. Outside of his rebounding neither Wes, Emery, Ike, or Ian are providing much help. In the Harvard game we were swatting at the ball instead of trying to grab it with two hands. That's not going to get it done. When Evan is matched up with another high caliber big our other guys have to rebound! I think that is where Emery should have been developed. The coach said something I totally agree with after the RI game, that was that they can't simulate size and athleticism in practice, so the only place that guys like Emery can get realistic reps are in games. Evans numbers are going to decline because he doesn't have Connor playing alongside of him. The fact that he still manages to get a double-double with the defenses keying on him is incredible.
Coming back to the win now idea. If you look at the increase in production over the previous year's performance for the front court seniors, I struggle make a case for win now. The individual improvement you should see from seniors with increased PT just isn't there. If their all around production were up year over year like Guilien then yes feed them minutes. If it's not, you have to develop guys like Emery quick, because these seniors are gone while Harvard just gets more experienced. Here's the year over year historics:
Wes
Ike
Guilien
To illustrate the point look at the data below. For For 40/100 minutes sort on points. In terms of defensive stats sort on blocks, steals, and rebounds. Then compare Emery, Wes, Ian, and Ike, and keep in mind their class, actual minutes played, total games played, and D1 experience.
Dartmouth Stats
We've got enough games in the books now and the numbers just don't make a compelling case for win now with our current roster and rotation. The Harvard game hammers point that home convincingly.
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hoopla
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01-09-17 05:16 PM - Post#217854
In response to hoopla
Agree to disagree.
I don't think there is ever a case for NOT winning now.
Every time the ball goes up it has to be "win now." Even though We started 0-9--worst start since LBJ--it has to remain "win now" (after all we have the wherewithal to win now) and if we lose that mentality there is a major problem.
Who are we to say "nah, let's just throw the youngins in."? Absolutely not. We had clawed our way to relevance and we cannot give up any more ground. We need every single W we can scrounge up.
Programs, coaches, teams, and individual players develop by collectively doing everything in their power to win games together. Wins provide more momentum and growth than anything else. And freshman develop in practice too. I'm glad Coach Mac is at least trying to win! And I think he has done a good job of gradually working in the youngins, and making them earn it. This avoids entitlement down the road and I think thoughtfully, gradually working in the fresh as they earn it in practice and games is better for them than just getting tossed in.
When did Coach Mac say he was not an expert on this team by the way? Yikes!
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-09-17 05:39 PM - Post#217857
In response to hoopla
I think maybe I was misunderstood or I wasn't clear. Winning is paramount. Obviously an 0-9 start was unacceptable to me, see any of my earlier posts. I think this team has underperformed given the returning talent.
Plainly stated outside of Evan, our senior front court players haven't made a significant enough leap year over year. It is an undeniable fact that none of our returning frontcourt players stepped up and filled Connor's production.
I want these guys to win and make it to the Palestra. Especially the seniors. They've given four years to the program, it would be nice for them to go out with that experience and possibly more.
#GoGreen
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Edited by GoBigGreenBasketball on 01-09-17 06:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-09-17 07:39 PM - Post#217867
In response to hoopla
When did Coach Mac say he was not an expert on this team by the way? Yikes!
Thank you for calling me out on that. In hindsight that was not a totally fair statement. It is true, it was said; however, it was during the preseason conference call.
Here
I think more recently he may have said the team was still working at becoming experts on each other.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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01-09-17 11:07 PM - Post#217891
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
- GoBigGreenBasketball Said:
When did Coach Mac say he was not an expert on this team by the way? Yikes!
Thank you for calling me out on that. In hindsight that was not a totally fair statement. It is true, it was said; however, it was during the preseason conference call.
Here
I think more recently he may have said the team was still working at becoming experts on each other.
“I think we just have to be a better job of becoming experts on each other. On the defensive end, we’re learning how to get stops more consistently and preventing teams from getting easy looks, and that’s how you win late in games,†McLaughlin said. “That’s a growth for any team, and we’re learning from every situation we are in.â€
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hoopla
Masters Student
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01-10-17 02:44 PM - Post#217915
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Of course it takes time to intimately learn about each guy, but I I suspect/hope that Sheehy asked Coach Mac for ideas and a vision incorporating thoughts and a vision for existing and incoming personnel, not just Coach Mac's general philosophy. Anything less would be pretty "D3" of us, and we do have a career D3 guy at the helm of the dept so who knows.
Anyway, while the Ws remain scarce, it does look like we're improving. And you are right about Barry. What a great pickup for Dartmouth. He's smooth like Brian Barbour from Columbia a few years back but shoots it even better, like Grant Mullins.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
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Quick Take from Ivy Hoops Online
01-10-17 02:52 PM - Post#217916
In response to hoopla
In a perfect world there would have been some type of transition team with information gathering on the existing players and recruits. But given the tenor of the media coverage of the change I doubt anything like that took place. That might have smoothed the transition. Something like that would have been in the best interest of the program and players.
However, there is no indication that there is any friction within the program which is wonderful. They seem to be buying into the process and competing. I just hope they reach expert level understanding of each other quickly.
| "...no excuses - only results!†|
Edited by GoBigGreenBasketball on 01-10-17 02:55 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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hoopla
Masters Student
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01-10-17 04:39 PM - Post#217925
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
I also hope they reach an expert level understanding of each other. Perhaps Coach Mac can help them with this understanding of each other and with role clarity. I am glad there is no indication of friction despite the record, and I hope the lack of friction results in the strong Ivy season (top 4 at least) that they should have. After the worst start in 50 years, they are getting better. In addition to Coach Mac being a great guy, I believe the freshman class has played a huge role in team spirit. They all seem like great kids and inspired. Go Green!
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