PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-09-17 08:23 PM - Post#217870
In response to sparman
No, you missed my point. It was the inconsistency of the 3 calls (let em play on all 3 or call all 3) that created the disparity. The timing of it in the last minute insured Penn wouldn't be able to come back from it.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 4008
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-09-17 08:59 PM - Post#217880
In response to PennFan10
Sounds like Penn "got f#@* in the a*#). (Sorry I couldn't help myself).
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-09-17 09:32 PM - Post#217885
In response to Old Bear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZV_vpkVTNA
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 75
Reg: 01-15-16
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01-09-17 09:33 PM - Post#217886
In response to PennFan10
Way back when, a BB coach jumped on our team when we tried to use the refs as an excuse as to why we lost a close game. His simple solution was that you had the opportunity to win the game with or without a bad call(s) -- that ended the excuse game from that point going forward which was good for the team.
Someone mentioned earlier that Cook played only 18 minutes and a few of the calls were questionable but at the end of the day, it is what it and is irrelevant. Players/teams need to deal with it and overcome it as there will always be missed calls as took place at the end of the Princeton game. I would imagine that is the attitude of Coach Donahue and Henderson.
It does seem that some Penn fans based on comments were jumping on the refs as per the norm over the years. Best solution is to get separation so that you are not trying to come back from a 5pt deficit.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32916
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-09-17 11:11 PM - Post#217892
In response to Old Bear
Naw, that game was one where Miller actually had an argument that a call cost him the game. And his feisty attitude got him a job at Penn (whether that was a good thing for either is a subject of debate).
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-17 11:03 AM - Post#217899
In response to bradley
Way back when, a BB coach jumped on our team when we tried to use the refs as an excuse as to why we lost a close game. His simple solution was that you had the opportunity to win the game with or without a bad call(s) -- that ended the excuse game from that point going forward which was good for the team.
Someone mentioned earlier that Cook played only 18 minutes and a few of the calls were questionable but at the end of the day, it is what it and is irrelevant. Players/teams need to deal with it and overcome it as there will always be missed calls as took place at the end of the Princeton game. I would imagine that is the attitude of Coach Donahue and Henderson.
It does seem that some Penn fans based on comments were jumping on the refs as per the norm over the years. Best solution is to get separation so that you are not trying to come back from a 5pt deficit.
The unfortunate thing about your comments is we aren't players or coaches so we don't have any impact. Our only outlet as crusty old basketball fans is to come on here and voice our views, save for the few of us who may still try our hand at lunchtime hoops with the guys.
That said, the point isn't whether referee calls decided the outcome, generally the refs are consistently bad or consistently good and they either let them play or call it tight. But in this instance, the refs were unquestionably inconsistent at an inopportune time and it had an impact on the flow of the game in the waning moments.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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01-10-17 11:44 AM - Post#217901
In response to PennFan10
Princeton broke the zone when the score was tied on a Cannady jumper. Next possession Brodeur loses the ball (one of 5 steals by Weisz), which Stepehens then converts into a gorgeous three from the right corner. Penn got no closer than 4 after that and it wasn't due to inconsistent officiating. Quakers forced to foul and the Tigers made them at the end.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-17 12:16 PM - Post#217903
In response to JadwinGeorge
Fixed this for you
Princeton broke the zone when the score was tied on a Cannady jumper. Next possession Brodeur loses the ball (one of 4 steals, and one egregious foul that wasn't called, by Weisz), which Stepehens then converts into a gorgeous three from the right corner. Penn got no closer than 4 after that and it wasn't due to inconsistent officiating. Quakers forced to foul and the Tigers made them at the end.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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01-10-17 12:20 PM - Post#217904
In response to PennFan10
I've always told the kids I've coached that they should win the game outright. Don't allow the game come down to whether the ref makes a good or bad call.
"...no excuses - only results!†|
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-17 12:27 PM - Post#217906
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
Good advice. I agree.
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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01-10-17 02:17 PM - Post#217912
In response to PennFan10
No point in getting upset about a refs call now. The world has changed. These games are virtually meaningless (at least for Penn, Princeton, Harvard and Yale). The only games that count are March 11 and 12, and lets hope we get the biggest homer refs in history.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-17 02:22 PM - Post#217913
In response to westphillywarrior
they aren't meaningless at all if you are the projected 3,4 seed. The line between being in the top 4 and being out of the top 4 could well come down to record against the rest of the league.
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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01-10-17 04:08 PM - Post#217923
In response to PennFan10
Relax. Penn, Princeton, Harvard and Yale will be first four. The fans are already lining up to buy their tickets.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-10-17 04:42 PM - Post#217926
In response to westphillywarrior
The highest possible 5th place record is 11-3. 12-2 guarantees a seed in the folly. One down, eleven to go.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-10-17 04:50 PM - Post#217927
In response to SRP
I believe the highest a 5th place team could be is 10-4 (in a tie) and 9-5 solo, but maybe I don't have the math right.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4921
Reg: 02-04-06
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01-10-17 04:54 PM - Post#217928
In response to mrjames
Let's see. 56 total wins in an Ivy season, five times 11 is 55 (top team wins 12), bottom teams go 0-14 apiece. What am I missing?
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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01-10-17 05:43 PM - Post#217934
In response to SRP
Those 0-14 teams have to play each other, and someone has to win. That reduces the wins available for the top teams.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6418
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-10-17 05:57 PM - Post#217935
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
I also try to model for the kids (and the parents) that you shouldn't let the calls impact you at all. If you're getting upset about whether or not you're getting a call, you're focusing on something other than trying to win the basketball game. Focus on the next play.
Of course, as fans we should feel free to throw our televisions through the wall, tell Princeton fans that they only won because Weisz cheated, etc.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-10-17 06:24 PM - Post#217937
In response to SomeGuy
Bingo. Yeah, if the bottom 3 go 2-12 (or some other combo of the six wins they have to share), then you've got a +30 W total to spread amongst the top 5. All five could go 4-4 against each other, which would put them all at 10-4 - one of the five would lose out in some super-odd tiebreaker. Or one of the five could go 5-3 with three going 4-4 and one going 3-5. I think that 9-5 is the best you can do and still finish solo fifth. And, of course, the odds of 9-5 being solo fifth require such a specific sequence of results that 8-6 is probably the realistic best you could do and still miss out.
I've never been good at these types of problems, though, so my logic could be off somewhere.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3590
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-17 06:28 PM - Post#217938
In response to SomeGuy
.
Of course, as fans we should feel free to throw our televisions through the wall, tell Princeton fans that they only won because Weisz cheated, etc.
This!
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