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Username Post: Penn        (Topic#19720)
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
01-09-17 08:23 PM - Post#217870    
    In response to sparman

No, you missed my point. It was the inconsistency of the 3 calls (let em play on all 3 or call all 3) that created the disparity. The timing of it in the last minute insured Penn wouldn't be able to come back from it.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3988

Reg: 11-23-04
01-09-17 08:59 PM - Post#217880    
    In response to PennFan10

Sounds like Penn "got f#@* in the a*#). (Sorry I couldn't help myself).

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
01-09-17 09:32 PM - Post#217885    
    In response to Old Bear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZV_vpkVTNA

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
01-09-17 09:33 PM - Post#217886    
    In response to PennFan10

Way back when, a BB coach jumped on our team when we tried to use the refs as an excuse as to why we lost a close game. His simple solution was that you had the opportunity to win the game with or without a bad call(s) -- that ended the excuse game from that point going forward which was good for the team.

Someone mentioned earlier that Cook played only 18 minutes and a few of the calls were questionable but at the end of the day, it is what it and is irrelevant. Players/teams need to deal with it and overcome it as there will always be missed calls as took place at the end of the Princeton game. I would imagine that is the attitude of Coach Donahue and Henderson.

It does seem that some Penn fans based on comments were jumping on the refs as per the norm over the years. Best solution is to get separation so that you are not trying to come back from a 5pt deficit.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32685

Reg: 11-21-04
01-09-17 11:11 PM - Post#217892    
    In response to Old Bear

Naw, that game was one where Miller actually had an argument that a call cost him the game. And his feisty attitude got him a job at Penn (whether that was a good thing for either is a subject of debate).

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
01-10-17 11:03 AM - Post#217899    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
Way back when, a BB coach jumped on our team when we tried to use the refs as an excuse as to why we lost a close game. His simple solution was that you had the opportunity to win the game with or without a bad call(s) -- that ended the excuse game from that point going forward which was good for the team.

Someone mentioned earlier that Cook played only 18 minutes and a few of the calls were questionable but at the end of the day, it is what it and is irrelevant. Players/teams need to deal with it and overcome it as there will always be missed calls as took place at the end of the Princeton game. I would imagine that is the attitude of Coach Donahue and Henderson.

It does seem that some Penn fans based on comments were jumping on the refs as per the norm over the years. Best solution is to get separation so that you are not trying to come back from a 5pt deficit.






The unfortunate thing about your comments is we aren't players or coaches so we don't have any impact. Our only outlet as crusty old basketball fans is to come on here and voice our views, save for the few of us who may still try our hand at lunchtime hoops with the guys.

That said, the point isn't whether referee calls decided the outcome, generally the refs are consistently bad or consistently good and they either let them play or call it tight. But in this instance, the refs were unquestionably inconsistent at an inopportune time and it had an impact on the flow of the game in the waning moments.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
01-10-17 11:44 AM - Post#217901    
    In response to PennFan10

Princeton broke the zone when the score was tied on a Cannady jumper. Next possession Brodeur loses the ball (one of 5 steals by Weisz), which Stepehens then converts into a gorgeous three from the right corner. Penn got no closer than 4 after that and it wasn't due to inconsistent officiating. Quakers forced to foul and the Tigers made them at the end.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
01-10-17 12:16 PM - Post#217903    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Fixed this for you

  • JadwinGeorge Said:
Princeton broke the zone when the score was tied on a Cannady jumper. Next possession Brodeur loses the ball (one of 4 steals, and one egregious foul that wasn't called, by Weisz), which Stepehens then converts into a gorgeous three from the right corner. Penn got no closer than 4 after that and it wasn't due to inconsistent officiating. Quakers forced to foul and the Tigers made them at the end.




 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
01-10-17 12:20 PM - Post#217904    
    In response to PennFan10

I've always told the kids I've coached that they should win the game outright. Don't allow the game come down to whether the ref makes a good or bad call.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
01-10-17 12:27 PM - Post#217906    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Good advice. I agree.

 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 196

Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
01-10-17 02:17 PM - Post#217912    
    In response to PennFan10

No point in getting upset about a refs call now. The world has changed. These games are virtually meaningless (at least for Penn, Princeton, Harvard and Yale). The only games that count are March 11 and 12, and lets hope we get the biggest homer refs in history.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
01-10-17 02:22 PM - Post#217913    
    In response to westphillywarrior

they aren't meaningless at all if you are the projected 3,4 seed. The line between being in the top 4 and being out of the top 4 could well come down to record against the rest of the league.

 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 196

Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
01-10-17 04:08 PM - Post#217923    
    In response to PennFan10

Relax. Penn, Princeton, Harvard and Yale will be first four. The fans are already lining up to buy their tickets.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
01-10-17 04:42 PM - Post#217926    
    In response to westphillywarrior

The highest possible 5th place record is 11-3. 12-2 guarantees a seed in the folly. One down, eleven to go.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
01-10-17 04:50 PM - Post#217927    
    In response to SRP

I believe the highest a 5th place team could be is 10-4 (in a tie) and 9-5 solo, but maybe I don't have the math right.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
01-10-17 04:54 PM - Post#217928    
    In response to mrjames

Let's see. 56 total wins in an Ivy season, five times 11 is 55 (top team wins 12), bottom teams go 0-14 apiece. What am I missing?

 
westcoast 
Senior
Posts: 302

Reg: 03-08-16
01-10-17 05:43 PM - Post#217934    
    In response to SRP

Those 0-14 teams have to play each other, and someone has to win. That reduces the wins available for the top teams.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
01-10-17 05:57 PM - Post#217935    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

I also try to model for the kids (and the parents) that you shouldn't let the calls impact you at all. If you're getting upset about whether or not you're getting a call, you're focusing on something other than trying to win the basketball game. Focus on the next play.

Of course, as fans we should feel free to throw our televisions through the wall, tell Princeton fans that they only won because Weisz cheated, etc.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
01-10-17 06:24 PM - Post#217937    
    In response to SomeGuy

Bingo. Yeah, if the bottom 3 go 2-12 (or some other combo of the six wins they have to share), then you've got a +30 W total to spread amongst the top 5. All five could go 4-4 against each other, which would put them all at 10-4 - one of the five would lose out in some super-odd tiebreaker. Or one of the five could go 5-3 with three going 4-4 and one going 3-5. I think that 9-5 is the best you can do and still finish solo fifth. And, of course, the odds of 9-5 being solo fifth require such a specific sequence of results that 8-6 is probably the realistic best you could do and still miss out.

I've never been good at these types of problems, though, so my logic could be off somewhere.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
01-10-17 06:28 PM - Post#217938    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
.

Of course, as fans we should feel free to throw our televisions through the wall, tell Princeton fans that they only won because Weisz cheated, etc.



This!


 
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