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Username Post: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds        (Topic#19752)
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3069

Reg: 02-04-06
02-20-17 06:03 PM - Post#222718    
    In response to Go Green

GG, that's ridiculous. The home-court advantage is roughly like being spotted a basket. Have you ever heard of close games?

 
DJ Jazzy Jeff 
Freshman
Posts: 49

Reg: 07-22-16
02-20-17 06:17 PM - Post#222721    
    In response to SRP

The Big East is always at MSG - St. Johns plays there. The A10 is now at the Barclays Center - Very close to Fordham. The MAAC (although moved around a bit) is always best at the Times Union Center - Siena's home court. The ACC was always at Greensboro - very close to the NC teams and basically a home game for UNC.

What's wrong with having it at the Palestra which is the best venue and in a big city where hotels and other travel accommodations are readily available? Everybody wants "fair"... Life isn't fair, but the Palestra is the best option.

The only other suitable option is to expand the tournament and play the games at the higher seed. This is what the AE, Patriot, NEC and a few others do. Pick your poison...

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 259

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
02-20-17 06:18 PM - Post#222722    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
GG, that's ridiculous. The home-court advantage is roughly like being spotted a basket. Have you ever heard of close games?



If you want to lay money on the P-P game if Penn qualifies for the tournament, fine.

I'll take Princeton.

 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 130

Age: 36
Reg: 01-08-11
02-20-17 06:25 PM - Post#222724    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
GG, that's ridiculous. The home-court advantage is roughly like being spotted a basket. Have you ever heard of close games?



When I look at the Vegas betting lines, it's always seemed to me that the home court advantage is closer to two baskets,
(3-4 points).


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 806

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-20-17 06:27 PM - Post#222725    
    In response to Go Green

You could have 4 teams and a home court advantage. Friday night semi's at higher seeds and final Sunday at the higher seed.

You'd have at least a week to plan for the following weekend.

Since the league insists it's not about the money, then ticket sales shouldn't be an issue.



 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 259

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-20-17 06:36 PM - Post#222727    
    In response to DJ Jazzy Jeff

  • DJ Jazzy Jeff Said:

The only other suitable option is to expand the tournament and play the games at the higher seed.



A third option is to rotate the venue by region. That's pretty much what the Big 10 does.

Of course, it would suck if the tournament is in New England, and the qualifiers are the Ps and the Cs.

Edited by Go Green on 02-20-17 06:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 806

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-20-17 07:00 PM - Post#222730    
    In response to Go Green

Is that worse than having HY travel to Philly?

 
DJ Jazzy Jeff 
Freshman
Posts: 49

Reg: 07-22-16
02-20-17 07:10 PM - Post#222733    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Yes it's worse. Who wants to go to Ithaca for an IL tournament because it's their turn to host? Travel to the games would look like the trip in Hoosiers with the family cars following the team bus to Indy...HICKORY!!!

The Palestra is the best venue. Unfortunately for some, it's Penn's home gym. However, the same goes for St. John's (and Syracuse for that matter - MSG), Siena (Times Union Center), Fordham (Barclays), and a few others. It's just how it is.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-20-17 07:15 PM - Post#222734    
    In response to DJ Jazzy Jeff

The home court advantage in college basketball is usually pegged somewhere between 3-4 points. It has been declining recently as offenses shift in style toward less HCA-affected elements.

At 3-4 points the full home/road swing is 6-8 points or between 9-12 points of adjusted efficiency margin.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2894

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-20-17 07:15 PM - Post#222735    
    In response to Go Green

Let's see how this one plays out - both at site and on TV. My feeling is that it's going to be great.

Jadwin is the closest competition to The Palestra for an on-campus tournament. The Palestra seats 2,000 more than Jadwin, is in a city (more hotels, transportation, dining, bars), and looks far better. The others aren't big enough to host a tournament.

Options are:
1) Host all games at home court of better seed. Only works if you resign yourself to the Ivy tournament never growing. Would not work well when we go to an 8 team tournament.

2) Have only the final at The Palestra. Would make the years in which Dartmouth hosts a semi difficult enough to mean a Friday-Sunday tournament. Would work as poorly as option 1) in a 8 team tournament.

3) Off-site tournament. What's the best we can do - Bridgeport? Not so great a place to celebrate after your team's victory in the semis.

4) Give up on idea on tournament.

5) The Palestra until better alternatives open up (if ever).

Let's reassess after the tournament. I think some of you are making a mountain over a molehill.

Edited by TheLine on 02-20-17 07:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
02-20-17 07:49 PM - Post#222742    
    In response to TheLine

Espn or whomever signs up to televise will likely have some say in it. I would think part of the reason of the Palestra initially is to entice ESPN, et al into a longer term contract and I wouldn't think they would have as much interest in some of the other schools as sites.

The Big 5 used to have every game at the Palestra with Penn as the visitor every other year. That hasn't mattered much, though they now play at the other venues as well.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3256

Reg: 11-23-04
02-20-17 09:33 PM - Post#222768    
    In response to Go Green

There's a nice arena at Mohegan Sun in CT. Lot's of hotel rooms.

 
Bryan 
Sophomore
Posts: 105

Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
02-20-17 09:37 PM - Post#222771    
    In response to PennFan10

Princeton and Penn have both won their last 4 games, against common opponents, home vs. the C's and at Yale and Brown. Princeton has won by a combined 45 points, which just exceeds the current Sagarin expected differences. Penn has won those same 4 by 67 points, an average of 5.5 points more than the Princeton victories. Now, Penn was 0-6 in Ivy games up to that point but they have been terrific in their last 4 games.

I'd like to give truth serum to both Amaker and Henderson. I'd bet a lot that they'd both prefer to play Yale in the semifinal rather than Penn.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 806

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-20-17 09:54 PM - Post#222775    
    In response to Old Bear

Mohegan Sun! Awesome Idea!

I've seen basketball games there, attended a faux beatles concert, won at the tables, and conquered a buffet - all within 24 hours! No offense Philly, but I'm sure they serve cheese steaks there as well!

Tons of parking - and it's free!


 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 130

Age: 36
Reg: 01-08-11
Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-20-17 11:23 PM - Post#222787    
    In response to TheLine

"Let's see how this one plays out - both at site and on TV. My feeling is that it's going to be great."

I predict that it will be great. Lot's of excitement, lots of good games. I also predict that Penn will win it and if that happens the tournament will not be back at the Palestra.

The rest of the league, at least H/Y/P, would not allow it. Just as I expect (and hope) Penn would never agree to play it on their courts. There's just too much at stake. There's only one prize in this league, the NCAA tourney spot. The best way to award that prize was always the 14 game tournament. But if you are going to have an end of season tournament, the only fair way to compete for the prize is on a neutral court or to give the higher seeded team (that they have earned in the 14 games) the home court for each game.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 806

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-20-17 11:41 PM - Post#222790    
    In response to westphillywarrior

Well put. I gotta think the powers that be didn't expect Penn to make the cut this year.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 07:58 AM - Post#222804    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The game is at The Palestra because folks wanted the tournament to happen. Since it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle now that it has happened, there may not be a need to pick The Palestra.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Sophomore
Posts: 189

Age: 69
Reg: 12-04-15
02-21-17 08:25 AM - Post#222805    
    In response to mrjames

If you are looking for a neutral court may I suggest Casey Arena at Mohegan Sun in Wilkes-Barre, home of the Penguins. Seats 10,000 + for basketball. The Globetrotters will be there the day of the Ivy final before a sell out crowd. Acres of parking, lots of nearby hotel space, and English, in one form or another, remains the favored language throughout the Lackawanna Valley. Certainly a central location for the 4 southern teams in the League.

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 871

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 08:46 AM - Post#222809    
    In response to TheLine

If the IL really doesn't care about making money on this thing, then it would hold it at the league champ's venue. And no, Penn fans, the Palestra is not the only arena in proximity to hotels or parking. Princeton has hosted dozens of multi-day, large crowd sporting events at Jadwin. Back in the day, Jadwin hosted the old ECAC playoffs, the winner of which went to the NCAAs, before the Big East and A10 formed. (In the 70s, there was more seating on the baselines and capacity was I believe closer to the Palestra.) Yale's relatively small gym (2,800?) was a great location for the P-H playoff in 2011. There's is no need to put 4 games on the Saturday ticket if teams with smaller gyms win the league championship.

Edited by TigerFan on 02-21-17 08:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2894

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 08:48 AM - Post#222810    
    In response to westphillywarrior

  • westphillywarrior Said:
I predict that it will be great. Lot's of excitement, lots of good games. I also predict that Penn will win it and if that happens the tournament will not be back at the Palestra.


Yup, if Penn doesn't win then The Palestra will be seen as a great permanent venue, if Penn makes it (a big if) and also wins then it'll be rotated most likely.

You can't play the tournament at the home of the winner when half the league seats 3000 or less.

Mohegan Sun would be a possibility if big enough, however you're sharing your site with gamblers which is bad optics.

Wilkes Barre? Really? Why not hold the tournament on the moon? I'd opt for Jadwin or Bridgeport instead.


 
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