SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-20-17 06:03 PM - Post#222718
In response to Go Green
GG, that's ridiculous. The home-court advantage is roughly like being spotted a basket. Have you ever heard of close games?
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DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts: 58
Reg: 07-22-16
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02-20-17 06:17 PM - Post#222721
In response to SRP
The Big East is always at MSG - St. Johns plays there. The A10 is now at the Barclays Center - Very close to Fordham. The MAAC (although moved around a bit) is always best at the Times Union Center - Siena's home court. The ACC was always at Greensboro - very close to the NC teams and basically a home game for UNC.
What's wrong with having it at the Palestra which is the best venue and in a big city where hotels and other travel accommodations are readily available? Everybody wants "fair"... Life isn't fair, but the Palestra is the best option.
The only other suitable option is to expand the tournament and play the games at the higher seed. This is what the AE, Patriot, NEC and a few others do. Pick your poison...
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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02-20-17 06:18 PM - Post#222722
In response to SRP
GG, that's ridiculous. The home-court advantage is roughly like being spotted a basket. Have you ever heard of close games?
If you want to lay money on the P-P game if Penn qualifies for the tournament, fine.
I'll take Princeton.
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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02-20-17 06:25 PM - Post#222724
In response to SRP
GG, that's ridiculous. The home-court advantage is roughly like being spotted a basket. Have you ever heard of close games?
When I look at the Vegas betting lines, it's always seemed to me that the home court advantage is closer to two baskets,
(3-4 points).
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-20-17 06:27 PM - Post#222725
In response to Go Green
You could have 4 teams and a home court advantage. Friday night semi's at higher seeds and final Sunday at the higher seed.
You'd have at least a week to plan for the following weekend.
Since the league insists it's not about the money, then ticket sales shouldn't be an issue.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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Ivy Title/Tourney Odds 02-20-17 06:36 PM - Post#222727
In response to DJ Jazzy Jeff
The only other suitable option is to expand the tournament and play the games at the higher seed.
A third option is to rotate the venue by region. That's pretty much what the Big 10 does.
Of course, it would suck if the tournament is in New England, and the qualifiers are the Ps and the Cs.
Edited by Go Green on 02-20-17 06:37 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-20-17 07:00 PM - Post#222730
In response to Go Green
Is that worse than having HY travel to Philly?
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DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts: 58
Reg: 07-22-16
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02-20-17 07:10 PM - Post#222733
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Yes it's worse. Who wants to go to Ithaca for an IL tournament because it's their turn to host? Travel to the games would look like the trip in Hoosiers with the family cars following the team bus to Indy...HICKORY!!!
The Palestra is the best venue. Unfortunately for some, it's Penn's home gym. However, the same goes for St. John's (and Syracuse for that matter - MSG), Siena (Times Union Center), Fordham (Barclays), and a few others. It's just how it is.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-20-17 07:15 PM - Post#222734
In response to DJ Jazzy Jeff
The home court advantage in college basketball is usually pegged somewhere between 3-4 points. It has been declining recently as offenses shift in style toward less HCA-affected elements.
At 3-4 points the full home/road swing is 6-8 points or between 9-12 points of adjusted efficiency margin.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Ivy Title/Tourney Odds 02-20-17 07:15 PM - Post#222735
In response to Go Green
Let's see how this one plays out - both at site and on TV. My feeling is that it's going to be great.
Jadwin is the closest competition to The Palestra for an on-campus tournament. The Palestra seats 2,000 more than Jadwin, is in a city (more hotels, transportation, dining, bars), and looks far better. The others aren't big enough to host a tournament.
Options are:
1) Host all games at home court of better seed. Only works if you resign yourself to the Ivy tournament never growing. Would not work well when we go to an 8 team tournament.
2) Have only the final at The Palestra. Would make the years in which Dartmouth hosts a semi difficult enough to mean a Friday-Sunday tournament. Would work as poorly as option 1) in a 8 team tournament.
3) Off-site tournament. What's the best we can do - Bridgeport? Not so great a place to celebrate after your team's victory in the semis.
4) Give up on idea on tournament.
5) The Palestra until better alternatives open up (if ever).
Let's reassess after the tournament. I think some of you are making a mountain over a molehill.
Edited by TheLine on 02-20-17 07:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-20-17 07:49 PM - Post#222742
In response to TheLine
Espn or whomever signs up to televise will likely have some say in it. I would think part of the reason of the Palestra initially is to entice ESPN, et al into a longer term contract and I wouldn't think they would have as much interest in some of the other schools as sites.
The Big 5 used to have every game at the Palestra with Penn as the visitor every other year. That hasn't mattered much, though they now play at the other venues as well.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3988
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-20-17 09:33 PM - Post#222768
In response to Go Green
There's a nice arena at Mohegan Sun in CT. Lot's of hotel rooms.
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Bryan
Junior
Posts: 231
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-20-17 09:37 PM - Post#222771
In response to PennFan10
Princeton and Penn have both won their last 4 games, against common opponents, home vs. the C's and at Yale and Brown. Princeton has won by a combined 45 points, which just exceeds the current Sagarin expected differences. Penn has won those same 4 by 67 points, an average of 5.5 points more than the Princeton victories. Now, Penn was 0-6 in Ivy games up to that point but they have been terrific in their last 4 games.
I'd like to give truth serum to both Amaker and Henderson. I'd bet a lot that they'd both prefer to play Yale in the semifinal rather than Penn.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-20-17 09:54 PM - Post#222775
In response to Old Bear
Mohegan Sun! Awesome Idea!
I've seen basketball games there, attended a faux beatles concert, won at the tables, and conquered a buffet - all within 24 hours! No offense Philly, but I'm sure they serve cheese steaks there as well!
Tons of parking - and it's free!
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds 02-20-17 11:23 PM - Post#222787
In response to TheLine
"Let's see how this one plays out - both at site and on TV. My feeling is that it's going to be great."
I predict that it will be great. Lot's of excitement, lots of good games. I also predict that Penn will win it and if that happens the tournament will not be back at the Palestra.
The rest of the league, at least H/Y/P, would not allow it. Just as I expect (and hope) Penn would never agree to play it on their courts. There's just too much at stake. There's only one prize in this league, the NCAA tourney spot. The best way to award that prize was always the 14 game tournament. But if you are going to have an end of season tournament, the only fair way to compete for the prize is on a neutral court or to give the higher seeded team (that they have earned in the 14 games) the home court for each game.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2685
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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02-20-17 11:41 PM - Post#222790
In response to westphillywarrior
Well put. I gotta think the powers that be didn't expect Penn to make the cut this year.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-21-17 07:58 AM - Post#222804
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
The game is at The Palestra because folks wanted the tournament to happen. Since it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle now that it has happened, there may not be a need to pick The Palestra.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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02-21-17 08:25 AM - Post#222805
In response to mrjames
If you are looking for a neutral court may I suggest Casey Arena at Mohegan Sun in Wilkes-Barre, home of the Penguins. Seats 10,000 + for basketball. The Globetrotters will be there the day of the Ivy final before a sell out crowd. Acres of parking, lots of nearby hotel space, and English, in one form or another, remains the favored language throughout the Lackawanna Valley. Certainly a central location for the 4 southern teams in the League.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1871
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds 02-21-17 08:46 AM - Post#222809
In response to TheLine
If the IL really doesn't care about making money on this thing, then it would hold it at the league champ's venue. And no, Penn fans, the Palestra is not the only arena in proximity to hotels or parking. Princeton has hosted dozens of multi-day, large crowd sporting events at Jadwin. Back in the day, Jadwin hosted the old ECAC playoffs, the winner of which went to the NCAAs, before the Big East and A10 formed. (In the 70s, there was more seating on the baselines and capacity was I believe closer to the Palestra.) Yale's relatively small gym (2,800?) was a great location for the P-H playoff in 2011. There's is no need to put 4 games on the Saturday ticket if teams with smaller gyms win the league championship.
Edited by TigerFan on 02-21-17 08:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds 02-21-17 08:48 AM - Post#222810
In response to westphillywarrior
I predict that it will be great. Lot's of excitement, lots of good games. I also predict that Penn will win it and if that happens the tournament will not be back at the Palestra.
Yup, if Penn doesn't win then The Palestra will be seen as a great permanent venue, if Penn makes it (a big if) and also wins then it'll be rotated most likely.
You can't play the tournament at the home of the winner when half the league seats 3000 or less.
Mohegan Sun would be a possibility if big enough, however you're sharing your site with gamblers which is bad optics.
Wilkes Barre? Really? Why not hold the tournament on the moon? I'd opt for Jadwin or Bridgeport instead.
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