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Username Post: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds        (Topic#19752)
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16045

Reg: 11-21-04
Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 02:02 PM - Post#222870    
    In response to DJ Jazzy Jeff

Yes, it's fair in the NFL because the teams don't play a round robin and there is no "fair" way to judge the value of the record. So they give an auto bid to the first place teams and the next two best records. That is as fair as they can make it without going to a 4 division setup with 8 teams and no inter-division or inter-conference games.

With mid-major conferences that get only one bid and have a round robin, it is patently unfair not to send the winner. You, in effect, have had a tournament and then disregard the result.

 
Streamers 
PhD Student
Posts: 1789
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 02:32 PM - Post#222875    
    In response to palestra38

A couple of things to mention about home court and the Palestra - it has a history as a 'home' court for other teams in the Big 5 and a Tournament site. Much of the HC advantage for Penn can be dialed out of the place with ticket sales, etc. More importantly, the Ivy home teams tend not to have the same advantage they might in other conferences. I have not run an data analysis on this but I'm pretty sure Ivy road teams are over .500 this year and probably close to that against the spread. Also note that Ivy referees are about as adept at home calls as they are with every everything else ;-) Hopefully, that will improve at IvyMadness.

 
Kit 
Senior
Posts: 375

Loc: Central Massachusetts
Reg: 11-29-04
02-21-17 02:45 PM - Post#222876    
    In response to Streamers

Why not play the tournament at Madison Square Garden? Saturday night is the Big East championship, so on Saturday afternoon they could play the semi-finals. On Sunday, they could play the championship. It would be a perfect fit. The women's tournament could rotate between the Palestra and Jadwin.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16045

Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 02:55 PM - Post#222877    
    In response to Kit

Too bad they no longer have the Felt Forum

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 705

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
02-21-17 03:22 PM - Post#222884    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Too bad they no longer have the Felt Forum


The New York Apples OWNED the Felt Forum.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16045

Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 03:29 PM - Post#222886    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

I had to look that one up---saw it was the renamed (and a much better original name) New York Sets of Team Tennis. Only played one year as the Apples...but there was a time NY had the Mets, Jets, Nets and Sets.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3092

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
02-21-17 03:36 PM - Post#222887    
    In response to palestra38

The Felt Forum is a great name for a pool hall.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 816

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-21-17 03:59 PM - Post#222889    
    In response to TheLine

Or a club of ill repute

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 705

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
02-21-17 04:02 PM - Post#222890    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
I had to look that one up---saw it was the renamed (and a much better original name) New York Sets of Team Tennis. Only played one year as the Apples...but there was a time NY had the Mets, Jets, Nets and Sets.


I think Sesame Street played on this in one or two episodes with a sports team named the Pets.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16045

Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 04:03 PM - Post#222891    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

OTB (RIP) had an ad campaign where they called themselves the New York Bets

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 6354

Reg: 12-07-04
02-21-17 06:02 PM - Post#222903    
    In response to palestra38

I get the feeling that Penn fans may be getting a little ahead of themselves here. This thing is FAR from over.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9450

Reg: 12-02-04
02-21-17 06:26 PM - Post#222908    
    In response to Quakers03

Darn right. If Columbia beats Penn this thing is going down to the last game, most likely.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1045

Reg: 02-15-15
02-21-17 06:39 PM - Post#222915    
    In response to penn nation

Columbia? I would worry about Cornell first. They are going to be motivated after being embarrassed. Kenpom has this as a 3pt game.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16045

Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 06:43 PM - Post#222916    
    In response to Quakers03

What Penn fans are acting confident? I haven't seen any. We're playing great but any team can lose on the road in the Ivies. Had the turnaround not occurred, I would have expected 3 losses in these 4 games. One game at a time.

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 872

Reg: 11-21-04
Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 06:55 PM - Post#222919    
    In response to DJ Jazzy Jeff

  • Quote:
Is it fair when Syracuse was in the Big East final and the entire MSG was covered in Orange and Blue?



The Ivy League is not the Big East, or the Acc or the A-10, or certainly the NFL. For at least the short term, it is a one-bid league, which makes this tournament now do-or-die. For conferences with multiple participants in the NCAA virtually guaranteed, these tournaments are a spectacle without the urgency that will accompany the IL tournament. Holding it at the tired old, smelly barn in west Philly just because its old and storied just doesn't cut it. If it went to 3 teams, with top seed getting a bye, I MIGHT feel differently because #1 would get a major benefit from winning the 14-game tournament, even it ended up playing Penn in the final.

(Ok I admit that I am a big fan of the Palestra, have dragged my wife and kids there to experience it and have cherished memories going there as a child to wathc P-P in double headers with LaSalle/Temple/St. Joes. But it just isn't right for this purpose)

Edited by TigerFan on 02-21-17 06:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9450

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 07:06 PM - Post#222923    
    In response to TigerFan

I must say that I chuckle when continuing to read the objections of Tiger fans to the Palestra.

Based on this logic, Big Five games at the Palestra would never have materialized. As many have noted, when you have motivated fan bases the "home court" factor at the Palestra is greatly minimized.

  • TigerFan Said:
  • Quote:
Is it fair when Syracuse was in the Big East final and the entire MSG was covered in Orange and Blue?



The Ivy League is not the Big East, or the Acc or the A-10, or certainly the NFL. For at least the short term, it is a one-bid league, which makes this tournament now do-or-die. For conferences with multiple participants in the NCAA virtually guaranteed, these tournaments are a spectacle without the urgency that will accompany the IL tournament. Holding it at the tired old, smelly barn in west Philly just because its old and storied just doesn't cut it. If it went to 3 teams, with top seed getting a bye, I MIGHT feel differently because #1 would get a major benefit from winning the 14-game tournament, even it ended up playing Penn in the final.

(Ok I admit that I am a big fan of the Palestra, have dragged my wife and kids there to experience it and have cherished memories going there as a child to wathc P-P in double headers with LaSalle/Temple/St. Joes. But it just isn't right for this purpose)




 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 872

Reg: 11-21-04
02-21-17 08:19 PM - Post#222932    
    In response to penn nation

The Big Five was a great annual battle played between storied programs but with no connection to any conference or implications for post-season (and it appears to be little more than a glorified exhibition series now). You can't compare the Big Five to games that decide the conference representation to the NCAA tournament.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3092

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 08:48 PM - Post#222940    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
Columbia? I would worry about Cornell first. They are going to be motivated after being embarrassed. Kenpom has this as a 3pt game.


Cornell is sitting at 3-5. I've seen them a few times this year, and they've looked good except for the egg they laid against Penn. It's a team that can definitely take 4th.

A week ago P38 was waxing poetic about Brown.

Based on their complaints about the Palestra it sounds like Princeton fans are more optimistic about Penn making the tournament than Penn fans are.


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3114

Reg: 02-04-06
02-21-17 08:52 PM - Post#222943    
    In response to TheLine

I think it's just the sap rising from the resurgence of the Killer P's. Brings back old memories and reflexes.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4171

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Ivy Title/Tourney Odds
02-21-17 09:42 PM - Post#222954    
    In response to TheLine

The problem with Cornell is always the possibility you catch them on a night when Morgan and Hatter don't miss.

If I'm Penn, I don't even think about Columbia until Friday is done.

 
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