bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-04-17 10:24 AM - Post#220372
Probably comes down to which team shoots the 3 better,turnovers and does Chambers or Weisz have the edge in keeping their team together thru rough spots.
Coach Amaker and Henderson will be scoping each other out as to strategy as they may be playing each other two more times this year but the winner of this game or future games may well be dependent on 3 pt shooting percentage and turnovers.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Harvard
02-04-17 10:36 AM - Post#220374
In response to bradley
Right, given the likelihood that both teams go to the new tournament (ugh), looks to me almost like a reconnaissance mission.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Harvard
02-04-17 12:31 PM - Post#220382
In response to sparman
Vets win tonight; newbies win at Princeton; toss up if they meet in stupid tourney.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Harvard
02-04-17 01:38 PM - Post#220388
In response to Tiger69
I have it in reverse order that Harvard frosh shoot 3s better at home than on the road, especially at Jadwin. But, surprises are not uncommon in the IL on any given night.
The final game in the IL tournament may well come down to what team shoots 3 pointers better on Sunday. Great way to decide league representative.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 08:13 PM - Post#220433
In response to bradley
First four minutes are a defensive struggle at 2-2. Brennan with a nice block on a Harvard layup attempt; Harvard's only score off a live-ball turnover from Cook to Chambers and a Chambers one-man fast break.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 08:30 PM - Post#220438
In response to SRP
Princeton outplaying Harvard but getting reamed by the officials. Apparently there is no way a Tiger can get a call driving to the hoop. An absurd, late offensive foul call on Cook on a breakaway layup bails out Harvard again. The Crimson have been terrible with the basketball, turning it over against the Tigers' active hands and Aiken taking some very iffy shots (he got a couple to drop, but also got stuffed by Cook and missed badly on a trey).
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 08:54 PM - Post#220445
In response to SRP
Up 30-24 at the half. 11 TOs from Harvard lead to 14 Princeton points. Tigers hitting threes pretty well, with Weisz picking up where he left off against Dartmouth. Cook and Stephens chipping in well, Bell provides good punch on both ends off the bench. Cannady struggling a bit on offense, but I feel like he may have a spurt or two in him.
Interesting looking at the highly touted Harvard freshmen against Princeton, where I have a pretty good frame of reference of what the Tigers bring. One thing that pops out is that I'm very glad Aiken doesn't play for PU--my stomach couldn't take it. No matter how good he turns out to be (and he does hit some high degree-of-difficulty shots and will surely improve), the horrible, overoptimistic decisions he makes would be painful to watch. You'd think a short player would be used to being short and wouldn't get himself into some of these no-win situations against taller, longer opponents, but in the three of his games I've watched so far it seems like he's frequently surprised that the other team has Division I defenders. I suppose you can't coach confidence and that works for him most of the time, but geez.
Towns hit a three that looked good but otherwise looks like a player who wants to be Wesley Saunders on offense but doesn't draw fouls or convert enough after making a decent move to have that level of production. (There is no comparison on D, as you'd expect.)
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Petrie
Freshman
Posts: 42
Age: 70
Reg: 11-14-16
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02-04-17 08:57 PM - Post#220448
In response to SRP
I think the tiger defense looked great in first half. Hope they have the legs to play the same D in second half.
Is something wrong with miller ?
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:08 PM - Post#220457
In response to Petrie
He played a little bit at the beginning, I think.
Good start to the second half except for more bad calls going against Princeton. Cook called on an iffy charge (at least he got his money's worth leveling Townes) and then an absurd blocking call when he was motionless and vertical against a charging Edosomwan. Then a loose-ball foul that looked pretty phantom.
At least the treys have been going down.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:20 PM - Post#220465
In response to SRP
Cannady 0-8, all but one of them threes, I think. Those two Lewis steals on passes to Gladson changed the momentum of the game but the Tigers don't seem too rattled. Still up a couple of possessions.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:27 PM - Post#220468
In response to SRP
Corey Johnson looks to be the Rivard replacement they've been looking for. Deadly from far out without much time and his D is pretty good, even though he's not quite as big and strong as Rivard was.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 09:28 PM - Post#220469
In response to SRP
Tigers look tired, they will need to dig deep to finish this one strong on both ends
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:35 PM - Post#220478
In response to Tiger81
Yeah, still up three with Chambers heating up. Big trey hit by Stephens and then Weisz draws the charge from Aiken. I like the composure so far. Harvard really cranking up the half-court man ball pressure, and I wish this team were more practiced in the good old backdoor stuff because it would really be there now.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:39 PM - Post#220480
In response to SRP
If the Tigers lose this, missed FTs will be a big part of the story. Cook cleverly draws one from Lewis but misses the second, then there's a bad foul giving Chambers three FTs.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:45 PM - Post#220486
In response to SRP
Another iffy over-the-back call on Bell where it looked like Chambers low-bridged him. Game tied now with 2:27 left.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 09:47 PM - Post#220491
In response to SRP
Too much one on one bs on offense.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 09:48 PM - Post#220493
In response to TigerFan
What the hell is going on at the FT line?!
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 09:49 PM - Post#220494
In response to TigerFan
Grotesque FT shooting.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 09:53 PM - Post#220496
In response to TigerFan
Cannady just doesn't have it...
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 09:54 PM - Post#220498
In response to TigerFan
Amir Bell!
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 09:59 PM - Post#220504
In response to TigerFan
Wow! Plenty of grit and maturity there. Cook with the huge OR on the missed FT and then they get the stop on Johnson's off-balance trey.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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Harvard
02-04-17 10:00 PM - Post#220505
In response to SRP
Wow. Just wow.
To win a game while having that brickitude.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 10:00 PM - Post#220506
In response to TigerFan
Wow! Another crazy game at Harvard. Gritty, ugly win!
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3666
Reg: 02-06-10
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Harvard
02-04-17 10:04 PM - Post#220511
In response to TigerFan
That was one helluva game from a basketball standpoint but still a concerning one from a Princeton standpoint.
There was a moment when they were up 13 and Harvard looked like they were about to call it a night. Then they had two fastbreak TOs that turned into SIX points for the Crimson. That just can't happen. I still don't see how this team can win a game in the Big Dance like Harvard and Yale did. But at least I'm convinced they can make it there. Myles Stephens is our clutch guy -- thank god he's just a sophomore.
Over in Ithaca, Brian Earl has Cornell 2-3 in a year where they should have started 0-5. Letting him go could have been a huge mistake...
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-04-17 10:06 PM - Post#220514
In response to TigerFan
I am perverse enough to kind of love this type of win based on strong D, forcing turnovers, scraping out tough rebounds at key times. A championship team has to be able to win some games this way. The treys are not always going to fall and you may have some FT butchery (although could we please at least shoot 66%?).
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 10:18 PM - Post#220518
In response to SRP
Poor Penn. It looks like the refs stole another one from them
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 10:18 PM - Post#220519
In response to SRP
Caught the last 5 min of the game. Princeton really stole that game. Down 3 - with an open look at 3 - Stephens really didn't have time for 2 - if they let him go - Harvard ball up 1 with 7 sec to go. Maybe you have 5 seconds on the way back to score? Great sub to put Gladson in to challenge for the reb on the FT.
Speaking of Gladson, 0 points from the bigs. Harvard will force you to play one of them, and they need to pose at least a credible threat on offense. Can't imagine Henderson would go small too much against them.
Big win, as usual not as big w/o the tourney waiting. Now it's about developing the bigs so they can play D against Harvard and Yale while forcing some respect on offense so the bigs can't help out so easily.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-04-17 11:15 PM - Post#220540
In response to umbrellaman
Loved this game, although I was sure that we had let it get away at the end. Harvard shouldn't have been as close, but when we led by 9 or 10 they were getting all the calls (see SRP above). Then two fine steals were able to get them back in it while we were running out of gas. Both teams missed key foul shots. But, in a tight defense, low scoring game it is not unusual to see under average free throw shooting. In the end it was Miles Stephens, Amir Bell and Steven Cook who pulled this one out of the fire. If Cannady had had a normal night this game would not have been dramatic. GO TIGERS!
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Harvard
02-05-17 12:58 AM - Post#220551
In response to gokinsmen
If Coach H would have let a guy of Bassey's height trying to box out Cook on Stephens FT attempt with 6 seconds left, he would have been ripped upside down. Although the Tigers had an awful shooting night with many wide open 3 point shots, they demonstrated that the Tiger players are as athletic and skilled to compete against Harvard's athletes. You could argue that Princeton had two of the three most athletic skilled players on the court tonight which is a reflection of what Henderson has done on the recruiting and player development front. Cook always seems to come up big against the most athletic and skilled opponents. I always love it that when the Tigers lose, it is the coaches' fault but he does not get much credit when they win. He has transformed the program to today's style of play.
Cannady and Gladson had brutal shooting nights and the Tigers still had a 13 point lead in the second half. I do agree that it should have been an easier win.
Crimson court looked like an ice skating rink with players losing their footing. Chambers is a player and as Henderson contends, it has been a senior league in the past. Harvard announcers could spare the audience with who was recruiting Harvard's freshmen. Aikens is fearless and very talented -- Towns may have simply had an off night. Edosomwan was touted for POY??? -- Lewis looks much better.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-17 06:54 AM - Post#220559
In response to bradley
Not much to add except I thought the poor FT shooting (and Weisz's late airball trey) were due to tired legs. To win at H with Cannady 0-8 and Pete Miller playing 2 minutes (is he hurt?) and being down 3 with H at the line with 30 seconds ... man.
I agree with Bradley, H has talent and athleticism but so do the Tigers and last night their edge in experience, poise and competitiveness allowed them to steal that game.
(And gokinsmen, Princeton did not "let Earl go", he got a great opportunity at Cornell that he had been working towards for many years.)
Kyle Wente was smiling last night!
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2274
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-17 09:20 AM - Post#220566
In response to Tiger81
Gladson did a good job in post defense. Also very nice job of doubling down both games this weekend, with nice rotation off the ball.
I sure hope Gladson finds his stroke (also Cannady).
Very tired of watching Harvard try to take the charge on every drive to the hoop, an old Duke tactic which led to the restricted zone. And Bassey did not "have his heels in the restricted zone"--only his toes were OUT of the restricted zone. Also the Harvard player was clearly moving on a charge taken early in the second half.
It's just a tiresome defensive strategy.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-05-17 09:39 AM - Post#220568
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Gladson did play good post defense but it was surprising as to Miller not playing. Miller looked fine on the bench as he did not appear to be injured. If the Tigers had Brase last evening, he may have knocked down some 3s' unlike Gladson. Miller did a great job of Brodeur during the first game and hopefully, he was just sick or Coach thought that he was not a good match up against the Crimson.
Tigers contested a higher percentage of shots than Harvard even with 4 guys playing 35+ minutes the night before -- 7 vs. 4 blocks, 9 vs. 3 steals --- willpower and athleticism. Stephens 2 pt with foul at 6 seconds left was a function of poor defense by 3 Crimson freshmen -- Towns, Aikens and Bassey; simply growing pains that they will learn from and hopefully, not this year. Harvard freshmen are very good but will they be dominant??? Time will tell.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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Harvard
02-05-17 09:47 AM - Post#220569
In response to Tiger81
Because I'm in sort of a harumphing mood this morning:
(And gokinsmen, Princeton did not "let Earl go", he got a great opportunity at Cornell that he had been working towards for many years.)
Yes, thanks for pointing this out. Unless the OP was advocating firing MH mid-contract or paying BE a head coach's salary, which is possible, though shall we say unrealistic.
. In the end it was Miles Stephens, ....!
I believe his twin Myles contributed, too. (C'mon, man, how would you feel if your name were being consistently misspelled by your own fans? He's not some unknown frosh who never gets PT).
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-17 09:52 AM - Post#220570
In response to bradley
Active, extended defense, quick switches and immediate double-downs on Zena and Lewis were the constant of last night's performance. That takes remendous energy and focus to maintain and it ended up being the difference given that the usual contribution from Cannady was missing. H has been winning by forcing turnovers but last night the equation went the other way.
So nice to see Bell returning as a key contributor and Myles emerging as a game-changer on both ends of the floor. But I still think we will need someone like Miller, Brennan, Gladson or Young to step up if the Tigers are going to win the (stupid) tourney.
Best Penn!
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-05-17 10:03 AM - Post#220571
In response to Tiger81
Even if one of the bigs step up, no guarantee with "stupid" IL tournament as it comes down to a 2 game season but Tigers can at least have the reward of winning a 14 game season. Yale is very tough and it now appears that Columbia plays defense. Harvard freshmen should also get better. Long way to go and it will be challenging as it should be.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Harvard
02-05-17 10:59 AM - Post#220576
In response to sparman
Criticism gracefully accepted. Apologies to Myles, who is not only a very talented and reliable player, but also a classy guy.
I, too, am a harrumpher.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Harvard
02-05-17 11:03 AM - Post#220578
In response to sparman
.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Harvard
02-05-17 11:22 AM - Post#220584
In response to Tiger69
I know you're as strong a supporter of him as any of the rest of us.
I've had my Snickers bar now.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-17 11:27 AM - Post#220585
In response to Tiger69
Great tweet this morning from Assistant Coach MacConnell that credited the scout team with making a big contribution to last night's win
pic.twitter.com/VITePoFzSd
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-05-17 12:24 PM - Post#220592
In response to Tiger81
Harvard's frosh are impressive but Princeton's tall, rangy guards really kept them in check, particularly in the first 30 minutes or so. Aiken looks smaller than his listing at 6'0" and 175 lb and he had a tough night, shooting 3 for 13. It will be interesting to see if he (and Cannady for that matter) heat up in the rematch at Jadwin.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-05-17 02:04 PM - Post#220604
In response to TigerFan
Aside from his talent and skill, Stephens projects a level of calm that is contagious to me if not his teammates. Even when he chose not to shoot the three at the end and drive instead, my "oh, no" feeling was largely suppressed by confidence that he knew what he was doing (I'm still not sure if he did). I guess if he hadn't drawn the foul they could have stolen the inbounds pass or gotten an instant foul and Harvard FT miss, but that was a pretty bold decision.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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02-05-17 08:06 PM - Post#220634
In response to Tiger81
Cook's numbers: 19 pts including game winner on 8 of 12 shooting, 9 rebounds, 5 steals and 3 assists. He did have 4 turnovers.
Weisz second leading rebounder. Cook and Weisz had 17 of 32 rebounds at 6'5" and 6'4" ---- senior will power? Weisz got a key defensive rebounding fighting off Crimson's bigs.
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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02-06-17 09:21 PM - Post#220728
In response to SRP
Yes, "that was a pretty bold decision".
An even bolder decision was to miss the foul shot.
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