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Username Post: Penn        (Topic#19888)
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-06-17 09:55 PM - Post#220734    

In all likelihood, Penn will play as a desperate team at home in a rivalry game therefore they will be dangerous. The Tigers may need to weather the initial storm. Quakers had a 17-4 lead against Harvard 8 minutes into the game. The Quakers can play a very good aggressive zone defense as they demonstrated during the 2nd half at Jadwin and at their recent game at Harvard. Tigers cannot take this game for granted as they did against Dartmouth. Quakers are better than their record.

Foreman gave the Tigers a tough time and Brodeur probably will probably play much better the second time around against Princeton. Hope is that Tigers play intense defense and Penn will cough up the ball plus you can foul them if you fall behind.

Key for Princeton on offense will probably be moving the ball quickly against the zone and going to the hoop. It will probably be a close game as per the norm. Once again, if the Tigers lose it will be Henderson's fault and if Penn loses, it will be the ref's fault for the 7th time during the past five years or it might somehow be Chip Kelly's fault.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Penn
02-06-17 11:23 PM - Post#220744    
    In response to bradley

Tells you all you need to know that it's the night before the Princeton game and none of us on the Penn side have even cared to discuss this contest.

You won't have a problem with this team. At least, not at this present juncture. Mind you, I most certainly hope that you will, and that your team will stumble badly and ungracefully. Until it hurts so very bad and you'll beg for mercy. And then we'll make a miraculous season comeback, you'll have to face us again in the playoff, and lose a nail biter.

Pardon my daydream.



 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Penn
02-07-17 01:25 AM - Post#220752    
    In response to penn nation

Pretty Old Testament, eh PN? I've enjoyed reading much of the angst over on the Penn board relieved only by sane remarks of SG and P38. It's definitely time to sack the coach and offer the job to Brian Earl. After all, Donahue has already had over half a season to produce an Ivy Champ. Keep that turnstile turning.

But sadly, for all of Penn fans' impatience with the rebuilding of the basketball program, their team will probably pull itself together for Princeton and make tomorrow's game a nail biter, perhaps even win. The Penn fans hardly deserve that.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn
02-07-17 07:45 AM - Post#220755    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
Until it hurts so very bad and you'll beg for mercy.



I love it. Kinda like pulling the trigger until it goes "click"?

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
Re: Penn
02-07-17 08:57 AM - Post#220757    
    In response to bradley

Totally wrongheaded to suggest the "Tigers took Dartmouth for granted." Dartmouth shot the ball very well and Boudreaux was a workhorse at both ends. Three week layoff was a big factor in the Tigers' slow start. I have to give the BIg Green some credit here. Road games are hard.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Penn
02-07-17 10:05 AM - Post#220768    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:

But sadly, for all of Penn fans' impatience with the rebuilding of the basketball program, their team will probably pull itself together for Princeton and make tomorrow's game a nail biter, perhaps even win. The Penn fans hardly deserve that.



The Penn fans who have been there for the past decade surely deserve it.


 
rbg 
Postdoc
Posts: 3044

Reg: 10-20-14
02-07-17 10:33 AM - Post#220771    
    In response to penn nation

I expect Penn to play hard and keep the game close this evening. Seeing how the Quakers have played in conference, it is hard for me to think that they will be able to get the win.

Coach Donahue has stressed limiting fouls, turnovers and 5-10 minute scoring droughts, as well as competing better late in games. Sadly, the team has not been able to do that in league play.

Losing winnable games at Harvard and Dartmouth were crushing defeats, especially considering the improved play they showed in defeating La Salle.

The defensive effort has generally been present, but the offensive production has been lacking. The offense has been so inconsistent that the are still continued changes to the starting lineup and substitutions 19 games into the season.

For Penn, it seems only Darnell Foreman has showed passion and intensity late in games. Unfortunately, he has not been able to put the team on his back and win several of these close games.

Watching Princeton over the last several weeks, it seems that they have many more talented players, in general, and several who are willing & able to take control of a game late.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Penn
02-07-17 10:45 AM - Post#220773    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

I agree that Dartmouth played a very good game and they deserve a lot of credit as it showed good character.

I probably used the wrong words that Princeton took Dartmouth for granted but the Tigers did not play with the same level of intensity as they played against Harvard. Just look at the number of times that Cook, Stephens, Cannady etc hit the floor on Saturday vs. Friday night -- loose balls, going to the hoop etc. Additionally, the Tigers challenged virtually every shot taken by Harvard which is another measurement of extra effort. Point being is when you are on the road, a team needs to play at 105% vs. 98% defensive effort. Same holds true for tonight.

The good news is that the Tigers can play defense at a very high level this year as Harvard and Yale always seem to play at. Harvard played very good defense on Saturday similar to what the Tigers experienced against UCAL and VCU --- tough to score.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Penn
02-07-17 01:23 PM - Post#220795    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Except for our horrible long range shooting we played pretty well Friday as did Dartmouth. Given what they did to Penn the following night, there's more reason to believe that Dartmouth is now a lot stronger than its record suggests. We'll see.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Penn
02-07-17 02:39 PM - Post#220808    
    In response to Tiger69

I look forward to a really good game. Penn is going to be hungry for that first W and Princeton will not take Penn for granted after two close ones versus Dartmouth and Harvard. Ivy basketball is getting lively gents!
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 03:44 PM - Post#220813    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

It would be nice to put Penn in the ground tonight. Not that enthused about them having a chance for a home playoff game.

Tough D, forcing turnovers, and hitting the boards are the formula for success. Hit corner threes against the zone and take advantage of superior skip passing.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 805

Age: 51
Reg: 05-19-16
02-07-17 04:27 PM - Post#220819    
    In response to SRP

One more team not in contention is fine by me.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-07-17 07:27 PM - Post#220849    
    In response to SRP

Miller is warming up and looks fine. He did a good job on brodeur at jadwin. 90th anniversary at palestra and giving out a free piece of cake.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 08:31 PM - Post#220866    
    In response to bradley

Up 19-10 with 7:46 left in the first half. Tigers look pretty comfy out there, which would make me nervous except they have been relentless on defense and Penn has been unable to answer, missing the few open treys they've been offered and turning it over a lot. I was pleased to see little things like the quick reaction to blanket Jones on the outside as soon as he came off the bench--good attention to the scouting report.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
Penn
02-07-17 08:32 PM - Post#220867    
    In response to SRP

Yes. Very perceptive to notice the only thing Jones is capable of doing out there.

Edited by penn nation on 02-07-17 08:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 08:40 PM - Post#220873    
    In response to penn nation

Up 12 with 3:56 to go. One bad mix-up giving Jones a 4-point play, but if the Tigers can shoot a high percentage of threes like this there should be no problem given the D.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 08:50 PM - Post#220877    
    In response to SRP

Still up 12 at the half after a Jones three takes the lead down from dominant to solid. Why he keeps getting pulled off the court is not clear to me.

Have to be ready for a second half where the Tigers don't match their 8-12 three-point shooting. They'll have to keep grinding and penetrate more.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
02-07-17 08:56 PM - Post#220881    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
Still up 12 at the half after a Jones three takes the lead down from dominant to solid. Why he keeps getting pulled off the court is not clear to me.




Have you seen his defense? If you can find it, give me a call.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 08:59 PM - Post#220884    
    In response to penn nation

Yeah, he's not too quick on his feet, but at least he's long in the zone. Man-to-man is more of a problem. Similar issue with Betley. This team ought to be playing multiple zones (not just the 1-3-1) IMO so as to keep at least one of those shooters on the floor. But I haven't seen them play as much as others.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 09:11 PM - Post#220888    
    In response to SRP

As soon as PU stops doubling Brodeur, he goes to work, scoring on two out of three one-on-one opportunities. Gladson's D not stellar there but not awful either--Brodeur is pretty tough. Nice Weisz trey off good ball movement to push the lead back to 13.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 09:22 PM - Post#220895    
    In response to SRP

Up 50-35 as Weisz and company continue to bomb away from three and the defense is still pretty sticky. Cook is struggling with his offense and Cannady hasn't been too aggressive, but Weisz and Stephens and Bell are pulling the train scoring-wise.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 09:33 PM - Post#220906    
    In response to SRP

Up 19 with under 8:00 to play. Stephens making Foreman miserable on both ends, but as soon as somebody else tries to guard Foreman one-on-one, he makes a play. Weisz playing at an effortless level, casually stealing passes, tossing in long jumpers after pump fakes, finding open guys.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 09:44 PM - Post#220910    
    In response to SRP

Up 20 under 2:00 to go. Great way to celebrate the 90th birthday of the Palestra, all but ending the Quakers' chances this season, barring a massive turnaround.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 09:47 PM - Post#220912    
    In response to SRP

Inauspicious start to garbage time, as Jones is fouled while shooting a trey. Focus!

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-07-17 09:51 PM - Post#220913    
    In response to SRP

Margin more respectable-looking after garbage time, only 15. Very satisfying win. Probably could go .250 the rest of the way and make the conference tourney.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1871

Reg: 11-21-04
02-07-17 09:56 PM - Post#220914    
    In response to SRP

Boy did I enjoy that game! Great to see the Tigers hold and extend a lead so thoroughly. Defense getting better and better.

Go Tigers!

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-07-17 10:09 PM - Post#220919    
    In response to SRP

At courtside, looked like men against boys.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1871

Reg: 11-21-04
02-07-17 10:16 PM - Post#220924    
    In response to bradley

  • Quote:
At courtside, looked like men against boys.



Looked the same on my TV!

Let the Quackers eat their cake in the cold dank Ivy cellar

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
02-07-17 11:10 PM - Post#220932    
    In response to TigerFan

I kept waiting for the inevitable Quacker run ... and waiting.... But when we shoot 3s like tonight, it doesn't matter whether they get it right or not. Regression to the mean after this past weekend?

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
02-07-17 11:13 PM - Post#220933    
    In response to Tiger69

I will breathe a sigh of relief if/when penn is eliminated from the idiotic tourney.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21086

Reg: 12-02-04
02-07-17 11:22 PM - Post#220935    
    In response to Tiger69

I can assure you that no Penn folks on this board are thinking about the tourney--or at least not this year's. More like the future of the "program", to the extent that it exists.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-07-17 11:46 PM - Post#220937    
    In response to penn nation

I had a conversation with two Penn fans pre-game and they were commenting that Princeton looked so much taller and athletic in warm ups. I think that Penn played pretty hard on defense but offensively, they were completely over matched. "If Princeton suc.. Always" as suggested by one of your comrades, I am not sure what words would accurately describe Penn's offensive skill level but the Ivy League could use the return of Penn to a competitive level down the road. Palestra was awesome as always.

Other than incredible off nights by Cook and Cannady's continued laid back play, the one concern is the C position although they had 12 pts combined with 7 rebounds and 4 blocks. Miller is obviously buried in Mitch's dog house. Gladson is an adequate defender but I would be giving Brennan and Miller more minutes. Big difference in Gladson guarding Penn's bigs vs. the other guys. Maybe, Gladson's style of play opens up the lanes for Stephens, Cook and Bell but I am not sure that I get it. I did see Hans in the stands and the Tigers could definitely have used him. Then again, I thought that Coach should have buried Bell on the bench after his early season play.



 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3634

Reg: 02-06-10
Penn
02-08-17 12:36 AM - Post#220940    
    In response to bradley

This team can certainly take care of business, but they haven't proven they can beat any very good to great teams. Unfortunately, the next opportunity to prove that will be the NCAA tourney...if they survive the Ivy tourney first.

Myles Stephens has had 5 straight games with 15+ pts on 50%+ shooting. That's huge with everyone else running hot and cold. He originally broke into the lineup for his defense, but now he's been the rock of the offense.

I think Gladson's big body and toughness are more valuable to this team than Miller's finesse game. Throughout basketball, the center position is becoming increasingly "blue collar." Set screens, box out, body up shooters in the paint. I'm looking at DraftExpress and the highest ranked C is at #12. Perhaps the age of the Princeton Center is over...

 
Tiger81 
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Tiger81
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-08-17 09:28 AM - Post#220960    
    In response to gokinsmen

Great game, it is always fun to see Princeton control a game from the opening minutes in the Palestra.

Weisz indeed looked effortless: the rest of the team seems to defer to his leadership and the offense flows through him on most possessions. No Cook and little Cannady last night but it didn't matter, thanks to Spencer, Myles and consistent offensive movement (70% assist rate) and attention to detail on defense.

I really like what Miller brings to the team and have no idea if he is in the Coach's doghouse or if he is just not 100%. If he is viewed as being less valuable then why wouldn't he come off the bench like the downgraded Amir Bell? Alec Brennan is now playing with much more confidence and freedom and I hope he emerges as a bigger contributor as we move into the second half of Ivy play.

As for Penn, winning 7 straight is hard to fathom. I also felt that the Quakers seemed slighter and slower than the Tigers, except for Brodeur and Rothschild. They will need a few more horses and time in the weight room to contend for the (stupid) Ivy tournament.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-08-17 11:10 AM - Post#220980    
    In response to Tiger81

Weisz has been stepping up his game even more as the year progresses. I always get a kick watching a 6'4" not highly recruited player driving the other team crazy. He does not have any of the measurables other than he knows how to play basketball. Even though not heavily recruited, he was a starter as a freshmen and IL ROY. If you look at the driving force behind a number of teams -- Weisz, Spieth, Chambers etc., they have one common trait -- they know how to play the game and they are leaders.

It is interesting to match up recruiting ratings and performance and there is not a high correlation in many instances, i.e. Brennan, Edosomwan, Egi, etc. There seems a larger discrepancy when it relates to the "bigs" as to recruiting rating vs. performance.

It is distinctly possible that a more athletic "2" rated player than Weisz, Miye Oni will be IL ROY as it appears that he has skills and intangibles. Unlikely that Weisz will be IL POY based on his stats but he is the on court coach.

Senior night will be special this year with Weisz, Cook and others.



 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
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1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
02-08-17 12:39 PM - Post#220987    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:

Senior night will be special this year with Weisz, Cook and others.




I'm looking forward to attending.

The brief cameo by Aririguzoh was nice to watch.

Very few points scored going to the hoop, which always troubles me. I don't know if it was due to the Penn defense focusing on this, or just wasn't working for Cook, Bell, and Stephens. It's nice when the 3-ball drops, but the variance can kill us.

The more I see of Gladson, the more I like about his game.


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-08-17 03:03 PM - Post#221004    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Brennan was great in a very short appearance. Of course, it was a low-pressure outing, but he made the most of it.

Miller is still the best post defender on the team, but the Tigers have shown they can contain the inside without him. Gladson looks like the future there, combining size and strength with traditional shooting and passing skills for a Princeton center.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
02-08-17 03:15 PM - Post#221009    
    In response to SRP

If Brennan can give us some quality time coming off the bench next year to spell Gladson/Aririguzoh, he will have done his job.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Penn
02-08-17 04:16 PM - Post#221016    
    In response to gokinsmen

You are correct that the Tigers have not beaten any very good or excellent teams although they certainly came close against VCU, UCAL and BYU. Unfortunately, they did not get the job done. Bucknell and Yale are the only teams at or below #100. They had the opportunity this year to get a NCAA bid without the need to win the nonsensical IL Tournament but did not cash in for a variety of reasons.

As to Gladson, Coach said it post-game last night that he likes him as he stays outside which means that he does not get in the way of Cook and Stephens getting to the hoop unlike Miller's style of play. The problem is that Gladson is shooting only 25% on 3 pt shots while Brennan is shooting 45%. Both Miller and Brennan are stronger defensively as witnessed last night against Brodeur and Rothschild. Gladson gives up too much ground on defense in the post. He is not bad but the other two are clearly better defenders. If they get to the NCAA tournament, Gladson - a freshmen -- will have problems.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-09-17 07:35 PM - Post#221163    
    In response to bradley

Gladson is a bit slower afoot than the other two, which probably makes him less good at containing post guys with good footwork. Some of it may also be inexperience and lack of anticipation, which could be fixed. Hard to believe strength is the problem, given his build--that ain't baby fat.

 
Tiger81 
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Tiger81
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-09-17 09:11 PM - Post#221170    
    In response to SRP

Bradley - I missed that interview, so that answers my question about Miller, thanks.

But it is interesting that Gladson has become the first option and #2 is Brennan, who also can play on the perimeter and is a better defender and shot blocker and has been more reliable shooting treys this year. It may boil down to other factors (screens, passing, spacing, etc.) that the coaches see in games and practices and has elevated Gladson in the rotation.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-09-17 10:25 PM - Post#221178    
    In response to Tiger81

Gladson with his big body sets screens better than Brennan but not as well as Miller who has special skills in this area. Gladson does seem to know how to space better than Brennan and Miller and he has better basketball instincts, intangibles, but he is slow of foot.

Brennan and Miller are clearly the better defenders as witnessed by Brodeur and Rothschild scoring 6 of Penn's first 10 points against Gladson at the basket. As you point out for a big guy, he plays a little soft in the box.

Challenge this weekend is Gettings and Petrasek. Gettings, 6'9" has an inside and outside game -- shoots 37% from 3s' and he has a hook shot -- scored 28 pts against Yale. Probably, the most improved player in Ivies. He has both strength and skill but he is young, sophomore. I think that Brennan, the most athletic Tiger C, is the best fit but Coach will probably give Gladson the most minutes. Unfortunately, Gettings is a little too big for Stephens but you never know.

 
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