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Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



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Username Post: Columbia        (Topic#19915)
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-11-17 09:18 AM - Post#221330    

Will the Lions come out and play desperate tonight? They still have control of 4th spot with the other teams losing other than Penn. Coach Engles seems to be having them playing defense unlike some prior year teams. Point spread, around 15pts, seems excessive but we know that the refs will be giving the Tigers all the calls, similar to Penn.

Big game tonight at New Haven. Yale appears to be a 6 pt favorite which also seems high. Perfect world, I think for the Tigers would be Harvard to knock off Yale. In all likelihood, there will be many bodies knocked to the floor. This game will be a good test to see who is the strongest team.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1871

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Columbia
02-11-17 11:18 AM - Post#221338    
    In response to bradley

  • Quote:
but we know that the refs will be giving the Tigers all the calls



We also know that the Columbia coach will make terrible substitutions, not play the best players enough and play the poorest players too much.

Edited by TigerFan on 02-11-17 11:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Columbia
02-11-17 01:34 PM - Post#221360    
    In response to TigerFan

While I love this team and the way they play, I have to keep reminding myself that only two of our wins thus far have been easy (Brown and Penn #2) and the latter because we had an unusually hot night from three. I don't think that we can expect any of the next seven to be gimmes

And then there is the idiotic tourney giving new life to the losers. Why should any team with a losing record in conference be allowed in the Tourney? If #4 is, say, 6-8, then let the tourney be comprised of only the first three teams with #2 and #3 in a playoff to face #1. Better reward for regular champ and possibly greater chance for second bid. And, no unworthy team getting an unmerited shot at the Dance. Conversely, if the League is so well balanced, the Tourney could include all teams with winning (not break even) records. The bar to entry should be at least that high.

Edited by Tiger69 on 02-11-17 01:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger81 
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Tiger81
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-11-17 02:21 PM - Post#221369    
    In response to Tiger69

It seems this year's team plays to the level of the competition. If the Tigers played defense against Dartmouth and Cornell with the the same level of sustained intensity that they brought against Harvard and Yale I don't think those games would have been very close.

The offense also has been erratic which means 10-point leads are as likely to disappear as grow to 20-point cushions. At the end of last season it seemed like most possessions ended in an uncontested trey or a high-quality interior shot, but this year's team has not been able to consistently play at that level. Last night Myles was terrific and bailed the team out of a lot of sequences when the offensive had little flow but that is a riskier strategy than a five-man attack.

It was interesting that Aririguzoh got so much playing time last night. My sense was that his plus/minus was pretty ugly but he sure is big, strong and quick and I hope the coaches can develop him into a productive part of the rotation.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-11-17 02:40 PM - Post#221370    
    In response to Tiger69

It's time for the ritual shattering of Columbia hopes and dreams.

This ought to be an intense game, but Smith can be kept out of the lane, the three-point line guarded, and the defensive boards cleared with the kind of consistent defensive effort we saw in the Brown, Yale, and Penn2 games.

CU plays a lot of zone, mostly a 2-3 where they match up on the ball up top, so crisp passing and spacing will be important. If Princeton has a 40% or better night from three, this will be comfy. 30% or worse will be a nail-biter.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
02-11-17 02:40 PM - Post#221371    
    In response to Tiger81

One thing I like about Myles -- he always shows up. High energy (and good judgment) at both ends of the floor. Though still raw, Aririguzoh may have that energy. I have great hopes for him as he gains experience. I believe that he has only played basketball for a few years. His upside may be great.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
02-11-17 02:43 PM - Post#221372    
    In response to Tiger81

It may be that the competition steps up a little more against the Tigers. Hatter and Morgan gave us all we could handle, but perhaps tried to do too much near the end. Tiger team defense is quite interesting to watch, a lot of great switching and communicating. Their doubles are usually protected and often force adjustments leading to less than ideal shots. The key to our success for sure.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Columbia
02-11-17 03:14 PM - Post#221381    
    In response to Tiger69

The #4 team in the Ivy League is historically not very good, somewhere around 7-7. There is an argument that it is unlikely that a 4th place team will win the ill-conceived IL Tournament which is probably true 90% of the time but the question remains why? Also, I am not a big fan if a 3rd place team is 9-5 and win the IL Tournament while 1 or 2 teams with 12-2 or better records do not go to the NCAA tournament.

Same thought process exists if the Tigers are 9-5 or 7-7 next year and win the IL tournament. I will root for the IL Champion every year but do not plan to watch the IL Tournament winner play unless they had a strong regular season, including the Tigers.

 
joe nassau 
Sophomore
Posts: 150

Reg: 02-13-05
02-11-17 04:29 PM - Post#221390    
    In response to Tiger81

Maybe they knew that he'll have to play tonite against Columbia. They are actually a bigger team than PU for once although their best big is a perimeter guy? Maybe the other PU bigs will get to play inside as well? Considering how many PU layup attempts against Penn were blocked I'd like to see some drives and dishes that result in layups and dunks but then again I've always been a dreamer?

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
Re: Columbia
02-11-17 04:34 PM - Post#221392    
    In response to bradley

Why keep beating this dead horse? We get it: some people are opposed to the tournament. I was as big an opponent as anyone, but that ship has sailed.
The kids want it, the coaches want it and now the AD's do too. You know what I did the day it was announced? I got a room up the street from The Palestra. See you in March!

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Columbia
02-11-17 05:49 PM - Post#221399    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

George, I'm the biggest whiner about the tournament. But, your point is well taken. However, given that it is not going away, we could still make some modifications to give more favor to the regular champion (no one makes it with a losing regular league record) while still giving worthy runners up a second chance. It still irks me that the NCAA guaranty goes to the tourney winner rather than the regular season champ if the league receives only one bid. The tourney winner should go NIT or get free pizza in my world.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-11-17 06:51 PM - Post#221407    
    In response to Tiger69

The NCAA Tournament could be the 68 best teams in the country. It is not. It is roughly the 50 best teams in the country plus 18 conference winners.

I have all the sympathy in the world for regular season title holders which are in the Top 68 but don't get an at large after losing their conference tourney. But if you're not in the Top 68, then having a shot at a bid is a gift anyway, one which is given for the explicit purpose of promoting mayhem.

If Princeton ends up clearly in the Top 68 and loses at The Palestra, I will think the Tigers got a raw deal. But if they remain hanging around the 80s/90s in quality and resume metrics, I don't feel bad.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-11-17 07:00 PM - Post#221409    
    In response to mrjames

That's silly. It isn't about the NCAA and what it is striving for, it is about the league and what it ought to be striving for.

At this point, we've mostly felt the pain of the tourney (a disappearance of national discussion of our best teams and their games against each other and a disproportionate attention focus among Ivy fans on the mediocre-to-bad teams). Perhaps that will all be recouped over one weekend, but I wouldn't count on it.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-11-17 07:14 PM - Post#221415    
    In response to SRP

It's not silly.

If the NCAA wanted to award a championship to the best team, it wouldn't hold a single-elimination tournament with 68 teams. It would probably curate a Top 8 or Top 16 and have long series, much like the NBA does. The NCAA is prioritizing the mix of madness upsets with the law of large(r) numbers that guides us to a Final Four with (mostly) bluebloods. We call the winner of that tournament "champion" even though it's often not the team we would consider to be the best team in the country.

Frankly, I don't think conferences should be eligible to send their champion to the NCAA tournament without staging a conference tournament, because that's the whole premise of March. It's one big national single-elimination tournament, except for a small number of teams that can be eliminated in their conference tourney and be rescued by an at-large bid.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-11-17 07:37 PM - Post#221418    
    In response to mrjames

Again, silly. The issue isn't NCAA values. Who cares what that nest of vipers thinks or wants? The question is, given that tournament, how can the IL best advance its own values and its brand?

As for your no-regular-season-champs proposal for the NCAA tournament, that's beyond absurd, but the sort of thing I would expect from them. I read from Kevin Whitaker that you also support outlawing help defenders taking charges, so perhaps your current French Revolution mood is affecting you. Next up, the metric calendar.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
02-11-17 07:49 PM - Post#221420    
    In response to Tiger69

Playing with intensity and shooting very well. Everyone is contributing. Columbia plays a good zone defense - Smith looks good as scorer but he is small.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-11-17 07:50 PM - Post#221421    
    In response to SRP

On the topic of the Columbia game, a string of great defensive possessions and some good ball movement and shooting has the Tigers up 15. They even had a classic Pete Miller-to-Spencer Weisz backdoor play.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-11-17 07:50 PM - Post#221422    
    In response to SRP

Just to be clear, I do not support getting rid of all charges. I support getting rid of all secondary defender charges, which are usually horribly called and involve sometimes violent collisions. I continue to support primary defenders' ability to draw charges.

If Princeton fans are so concerned about the tournament, the Tigers could have held on against Cal, Monmouth and/or VCU and made winning at The Palestra irrelevant. They didn't, and now they have to do it the hard way.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
02-11-17 07:52 PM - Post#221423    
    In response to mrjames

Calm down Mr. James

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
02-11-17 07:55 PM - Post#221424    
    In response to mrjames

That's exactly what I said--you want to eliminate help defense unless someone is a shot-blocker. That is such a terrible idea that I can't believe anyone would seriously propose it.

Those OOC wins would have been nice, but are irrelevant to the question of whether a one-bid league with a distinctive profile ought to have a conference tournament. I'm not complaining about PU specifically with the tournament. It's the manifest above-unity cost/benefit ratio for the league as a whole that bothers me.

 
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