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Username Post: Cornell Game #2        (Topic#19927)
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 425

Age: 45
Reg: 05-19-16
02-12-17 10:48 AM - Post#221481    

Dartmouth Basketball
Predictions Update
Feb 12, 2017

• After beating Brown 77-74 yesterday, Dartmouth is now projected to finish the regular season 7-20 (4-10 Ivy).
• We currently rank Dartmouth as the #282 team in the country, and the #8 team in the Ivy.
• Next game: Fri, Feb 17 vs. #251 Cornell. Our power ratings give the Big Green a 58% chance to win.
"...no excuses - only results!”


Edited by GoBigGreenBasketball on 02-12-17 10:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-12-17 11:17 AM - Post#221486    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

  • GoBigGreenBasketball Said:
Dartmouth is now projected to finish the regular season 7-20 (4-10)

#8 team in the Ivy.




Did a quick scan of the archives. Since 1990, only twice has a 4-10 team finished last by themselves in the league.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 425

Age: 45
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-12-17 11:24 AM - Post#221491    
    In response to Go Green

I don't think we'll end up last in the Ivy. Whatever McLaughlin said during the half at Brown, he needs to say it before every game here on out! The team is what the team is going to be at this point skill wise. The only thing that can really change is the competitive mindset and the team's will to win games.

"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 425

Age: 45
Reg: 05-19-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-12-17 03:23 PM - Post#221551    
    In response to Go Green

Hopefully Penn softens Cornell up real good so we can jump on them next!!!!!
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
Cornell Game #2
02-14-17 01:32 PM - Post#221808    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

As unfortunate as this year has been, the team rallied to beat Penn and Brown, two must wins to stay alive. To remain alive they need both wins this weekend. They are playing better and seem more on the upswing than downswing like Penn and Brown. They can, will, and should come through.

Edited by hoopla on 02-14-17 01:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 425

Age: 45
Reg: 05-19-16
Cornell Game #2
02-17-17 09:56 PM - Post#222171    
    In response to hoopla

Yuck! Fleming returns to earth and our forwards not named Boudreaux only tally 2 more points and no more rebounds in a combined 32 mins as Careter who played 5 mins???? Even Johnson in 5 mins matched Wright who played 25 minutes. We went scoreless for too long.

We should have thrown Cameron in, heck even the two kids who never play, they are always good for a bucket! Let's see if the coach continues with the existing rotation or starts to mix it up and see what next year might look like. Even the commentators were wondering why it took so long to get Barry back in the game early on. Got to get a guy who shoots it at 45% more attempts on kick outs from Boudreaux.

"...no excuses - only results!”


Edited by GoBigGreenBasketball on 02-17-17 10:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
02-17-17 10:30 PM - Post#222193    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball


In my mind, tonight was an elimination game for both teams.

Unless we somehow pull off major upsets against Yale and Princeton, we're done.

 
Cooper 
Sophomore
Posts: 126

Reg: 11-22-04
Cornell Game #2
02-17-17 11:17 PM - Post#222226    
    In response to Go Green

Cornell guards were absolutely blowing by Dartmouth defenders for layups. That had something to do with the guard rotation. The Big Red went to a four corners scenario too early and almost paid the price for it. Between the guards being overmatched the and front court apart from Evan not showing up, it was a disheartening loss.

Edited by Cooper on 02-17-17 11:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
EasyGreen1 
Freshman
Posts: 10

Age: 40
Reg: 12-08-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-17-17 11:33 PM - Post#222230    
    In response to Cooper

The big green guards have been poor defenders all year, yet the rotation and their minutes played have not changed one bit. That falls squarely on the coaches! You cannot win games if your players don't take pride in defense. Cornell ran the same elementary back door cut all game and we made no adjustments. If you play favorites with players who don't produce, you will lose. Plain and simple. The most shameful part is you have guys on the bench who are unselfish team players and will play their hearts out to win!


 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-17-17 11:38 PM - Post#222232    
    In response to Cooper

SO Mike Fleming, our starting point guard, plays 34 minutes and gets 3 points???? WHere was the 17 Mikey? Or 15. Hell, even 7 helps. 3? You can start a forward at point guard and he'll get three points.But wait, he had 5 fouls too, 5 assists (at least he did one thing on the positive side of the ledger.) But as someone else noted, he is an absolutely AWFUL defender. Mclaughlin should bench him for the number of times his man ran by him (at least 10 times (but I cant bring myself to watch it again) and Fleming grabbed him (cause he can't guard them) and fouled out of the game. So tired of this terrible guard leading our team. Our team defense and inability to put points on the board gets us another loss. And after each f*&k up Fleming is walking around "my bad, my bad". Dude, you're all bad. Don't know why the coach starts you, but you'd be sitting on my bench. If we didn't have Evan, I'm pretty sure we'd be winless......Miles- No show almost every game.Guilien, 50% of games no show. Wes, light contribution. No rebounds, a few points here and there. Look at the box score from toinght. Typical of our season.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 09:50 AM - Post#222263    
    In response to hoops123

The Cornell guards are incredibly athletic. That was a game for Cam to play in! I know that not everyone is a fan of the old codger, but boy did we miss him last night. He didn't let these mismatches happen. His system was complicated but allowed for different players to contribute based on matchups! I'm a believer in Coach Mac but he needs an experienced coach to come in as a consultant. I like "space and pace" too but not when we are the less athletic team. I agree this was an elimination game. They will fight hard tonight, and if they don't that's a really bad sign. Someone other than Boudreaux needs to step up tonight because Jean Bain (former Associate Head Coach at Dartmouth) who was fired with the last administration knows us inside and out. Time for the young kids to play IMO.

 
Cooper 
Sophomore
Posts: 126

Reg: 11-22-04
02-18-17 09:52 AM - Post#222264    
    In response to hoops123

Give 'em a break. It's entirely fair to comment on coaching and the play of the team as a whole. It's unfair to be mean-spirited in critiques of individual players who want to win as much or more than you do.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 09:58 AM - Post#222265    
    In response to Cooper

Agreed.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 10:11 AM - Post#222267    
    In response to Cooper

  • Cooper Said:
Give 'em a break. It's entirely fair to comment on coaching and the play of the team as a whole. It's unfair to be mean-spirited in critiques of individual players who want to win as much or more than you do.



I take it that you haven't spent much time on the Penn board the past few years.

Or if you have, can you tell me the reason why Dartmouth players are too fragile to read critiques of their games?

Edited by Go Green on 02-18-17 10:13 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 425

Age: 45
Reg: 05-19-16
02-18-17 10:58 AM - Post#222271    
    In response to Cooper

I agree with hoops123 in that Coach McLaughlin gives an incredible amount of latitude to certain players. IMO Boudreaux is about the only player that minutes should be untouchable. He's the only one who's earned superstar treatment.

We have guy's who are streaky shooters, take and miss tons of 3s, guys who's footwork is terrible and travel, guys who routinely turn over the ball, guys who play "olé defense" and the list goes on. These guy's leashes are to long. Conversely we have Guy's who make one mistake and their yanked tour the bench and guys who never get in to make a mistake.

Look Barry should be starting the numbers say it, his play on the court says it. That's senior bias, not meritocracy. We've played enough games that Cameron should have seen more PT in. Carter and Emory should have seen more developmental PT. Ngwudo who has started info the past only produces a fraction more points than either of the freshman, but his PT is 2 and 3X as much. And it's not the defense provided because a deep dive into the analytics reveals that the freshman forwards, when on the floor give up fewer points per possession. Same views for when Barry is on the floor.

I don't think McLaughlin is a bad guy or terrible coach, but there's a lot of moves we make that a rationale analysis can't answer. This would be alright IMO if it produced wins. We've only had one dominant win vs LIU. I agree that it appears we pull kids who get it going. I don't know why we ice our own guys. Why help spent so much time trying to make Johnson a PG is insane, when Cameron sits the bench all year, while we're good for a charge a game from either our both Smith and Sistare guaranteed.

Hey maybe those were the best moves we could have made given our roster. I personally don't think so, but then again I'm not a coach I'm just a tortured fan. We are what our record says we are, and it says we are one of the worst teams in college basketball.



"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 11:11 AM - Post#222272    
    In response to Go Green

I do like some of their commentators, including P38, SomeGuy, and Silver Maple.

But the Penn board is insane.

 
Cooper 
Sophomore
Posts: 126

Reg: 11-22-04
Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 01:53 PM - Post#222289    
    In response to hoopla

I have indeed spent time on the Penn board and yes, it can be ugly. That doesn't mean it's right there OR here. Be constructive without being destructive. How do you think particular kids or their parents and families feel reading some of these comments if they come by here? Now on to Columbia.

Edited by Cooper on 02-18-17 01:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 02:32 PM - Post#222295    
    In response to Cooper

  • Cooper Said:
I have indeed spent time on the Penn board and yes, it can be ugly. That doesn't mean it's right there OR here. Be constructive without being destructive. How do you think particular kids or their parents and families feel reading some of these comments if they come by here? Now on to Columbia.



I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your opinion.

But these guys can drive, vote, serve in the military, shave every day, and most of them can buy alcohol. Many of them are going to become leaders in business, law, medicine, etc. in the foreseeable future.

This is just my opinion, but I'd suggest that calling them "kids" and treating them as such does them more of a disservice than criticizing their games. Division 1 hoops isn't the YMCA.

 
Cooper 
Sophomore
Posts: 126

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 03:22 PM - Post#222302    
    In response to Go Green

It's non-scholarship basketball played in half-empty gyms. All I'm suggesting is that you be nice. A little civility these days might benefit us all.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 03:26 PM - Post#222304    
    In response to Go Green

Maybe I'd agree with you GG if the board wasn't anonymous.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 03:35 PM - Post#222305    
    In response to hoopla

I'm not sure what the right word is for anonymously calling out college kids in a mean spirited way. Cowardly? Sad? Pathetic?

The good news is that while I do think our guys are still kids, I think they are old, wise, and tough enough to ultimately understand which voices to respect and which aren't worth the time.

For the record GG, while I disagree with you on some stuff, I consider your voice one to listen to.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 03:37 PM - Post#222306    
    In response to Cooper

I agree with Go Green. I don't think being direct isn't "nice". It's direct. Why sugar coat the truth? If the "kids" (young men) or parents don't like it, they can A. Not read it, or B. Change the way they play. My opinion is that the collective "niceness" from the staff, the coaches, to most of the players, and the fans has contributed over the last 30 years to Dartmouth's anemic performance in basketball. In sports, nice guys generally do finish last. The goal in sports, especially college D1 sports, is to win. And here at Dartmouth basketball, we don't do much winning. We've been the league doormat for what, 30 years? And I believe it's time to change that.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 03:53 PM - Post#222310    
    In response to Cooper

So Hoopla, guessing your solution is get the team around the campfire, sing Men of Dartmouth, have a nice group hug, then tell the players 'do your best guys, we hope you win' and give the guys their participation trophies?? Have you ever played a sport in your life?? I'm guessing no.In your world, no one is accountable and calling out poor performance is a dreadful thing. Funny! Have you ever watched ESPN? These people make a living calling out poor performances. Dartmouth athletes are suddenly immune from any criticism? Read my last post. Being the board cheerleader and not facing reality and HOPING things will get better is way more "sad" because your attitude is part of the Dartmouth Athletics complacency/apathy problem. Oh, and you still want Cormier to be the coach. That shows the readers how out of touch you really are. Now we're talking "pathetic"......

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4164

Reg: 11-22-04
02-18-17 04:00 PM - Post#222311    
    In response to Cooper

I think there is plenty of room to discuss this stuff without taking unnecessary shots at kids. To me, there is a big difference between saying that Brendan Barry or Cameron Smith should be playing because they do xyz, and the kind of vitriol directed at one player that appeared in the prior post.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 04:05 PM - Post#222312    
    In response to hoops123

Are you tweeting from the Oval Office?

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 04:06 PM - Post#222313    
    In response to SomeGuy

Yes

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4164

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 04:06 PM - Post#222314    
    In response to hoops123

The thing about the "ever played a sport in your life" comment is that not all athletes view their teammates in the way that you seem to. In fact, many of them are if anything over protective of and overconfident in their teammates. I suspect that you won't find many kids in the Dartmouth locker room who would say the sorts of things you said about Fleming. Moreover, I would argue that the type of players you want are exactly the kids who don't think the way you do.

I also think that it is a good thing you aren't coaching kids anymore. You seemed to suggest previously that the problem was the parents, and not you, but the simple fact that you saw somebody else as the problem is a pretty good indicator that you shouldn't be out there coaching.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 04:55 PM - Post#222320    
    In response to SomeGuy

Well SomeGuy you are wrong on all counts. Consider me not surprised... And it's clear to me based on your and Hoopla's posts why Ivy League sports are viewed so poorly by the non Ivy world and why we'll always be a tier below other D1 sports programs. I guess its the way it is. Not going to try and change the views of people that have made up their minds. I'll just keep posting along and Hoopla (with your White House comment, sounds like you're still butt hurt over the election, eh Hoopla?)and SomeGuy can whine in the background when they don't agree. Maybe you two can set up a picketing protest group to convince those mean spirited writers at the Valley News to be nicer too and not pick on the Dartmouth "kids" and coaches. Hopefully you are so successful, then the whole board can all sing Kumbaya together and the basketball world will be so perfect......

http://www.vnews.com/Dartmouth-men-s-baske tball-vs...


 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 05:24 PM - Post#222326    
    In response to hoops123

Whether you or a loved one rode pine, got cut or yelled at (perhaps by Cormier) or just didn't pan out, you seem to have some issues to work through with regard to an athletic career and I honestly wish you well.

Edited by hoopla on 02-18-17 05:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
hoopla 
Masters Student
Posts: 484

Age: 43
Reg: 08-28-12
02-18-17 05:26 PM - Post#222327    
    In response to hoopla

Go Green beat Columbia!

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2869

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-18-17 05:50 PM - Post#222333    
    In response to hoopla

I'm only going to say this. Sometimes the people on these boards get a little hot under the collar, and a few do seem to have a proclivity for nastiness. But, if you get a chance, lurk around some other conference's discussion boards. This forum is the University of Woolamaloo Philosophy Department by comparison.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2869

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 05:51 PM - Post#222334    
    In response to Silver Maple

Oh-- and I'm also pulling for The Men of Dartmouth to beat Columbia. Not only because that would benefit Penn, but because Dartmouth is my grad school alma mater. So, Go Green and all that.

It's possible (but not guaranteed) that replacing Paul Cormier will benefit the program in the long term. But there's no question in my mind that, in the near term, the team is paying a major price.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Cornell Game #2
02-18-17 06:49 PM - Post#222339    
    In response to hoops123

  • hoops123 Said:


Well *this* is nice to hear.

"Internet message-board chatter has questioned whether Boudreaux might follow in the steps of former Dartmouth guard Alex Mitola, who completed his degree in three years and transferred to George Washington for his fourth year of NCAA eligibility. Asked that question on Friday, Boudreaux responded in the negative."

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
02-19-17 09:33 AM - Post#222437    
    In response to Go Green


Had we gotten done against Cornell, we'd be tied for the fourth slot of the tourney.

We could still make it with some upsets, but even then, I seriously doubt we have many advantages in the tie-breakers against anyone.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Cornell Game #2
03-17-17 06:16 AM - Post#227428    
    In response to Cooper

  • Cooper Said:
I have indeed spent time on the Penn board and yes, it can be ugly. That doesn't mean it's right there OR here. Be constructive without being destructive. How do you think particular kids or their parents and families feel reading some of these comments if they come by here?



If you still think that college players should be immune from criticism, google "Matthew Fisher-Davis."

Edited by Go Green on 03-17-17 06:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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