Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



 Page 6 of 6 « First<3456
Username Post: Brown        (Topic#19947)
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1051

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
02-18-17 12:36 AM - Post#222241    
    In response to gopenngo

I'm not sure we can replicate this on a regular basis, but this is the "pick your poison" Penn offense... You wanna double team AJ every time he touches the ball? Well then that leaves us open for three pointers (Betley 6-10; JD 6-11).

Based on tonight, do you think Yale will constantly double team AJ on Sunday?

Anyone predict Betley to be this good?

 
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1051

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
02-18-17 12:44 AM - Post#222242    
    In response to Cvonvorys

One more thing...

I'd like to go back through all of the previous posts on this board about how much better athletically Brown is than Penn...

Anyone out there who wants to retract his/her opinion?

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 6354

Reg: 12-07-04
Brown
02-18-17 02:02 AM - Post#222245    
    In response to Cvonvorys

I'm not someone who said it but to make that comparison is incorrect. Betley (0) and Goodman played 4 minutes in that first game when the comments were made. They played 61 tonight.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-17 02:08 AM - Post#222247    
    In response to Cvonvorys

This thread is a great reminder of why I'm glad I've decided not to post during games. After a game like this the in-game complaints read to be very silly (and I know I'd be doing the same if I did post!).

Considering how frustrating it was to start the Ivy season it's great to see this 3 game streak, and love how the team keeps fighting. Still a LOOOONG way to go, but let's see what these kids can do. Obviously hitting shots make everything look better, but think critical thing is that Donahue has found a good rotation (just wish it didn't take so long). Clearly learning for everyone, but one has to ask how Betley got a DNP in first Brown game?

Also think that two things have made a big difference: 1) AJ is handling the double teams better and 2) the guards are doing a better job getting themselves open when he gets doubled.

P38 - I imagine you'd like some of those posts about Brown back? ;-)

 
Charlie Fog 
Junior
Posts: 291

Age: 48
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
02-18-17 03:26 AM - Post#222253    
    In response to Streamers

  • Streamers Said:
JD needs to sit... now



Let him sit on Monday.

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 532

Reg: 11-29-04
02-18-17 05:22 AM - Post#222254    
    In response to Charlie Fog

I've mentioned that there has been quite a few games since the last I've seen. My observations:

- Goodman and Betley really change the profile of the team in terms of ball handling and shooting. Goodman has freakishly long and fast steps for a 6' guard. He can get to the hoop. I agree with the points that he doesn't seem to always know what to do with the ball - would like to see him keep the handle and not get into the air as much. He could become our first strong ball possession guard for a while. Betley brings a good combination of rebounding, shooting, length, and self-control.

- Even though JD lit up the stats, most of it was in garbage time. I saw him make plenty of turnovers, get burned on D, and take and miss a lot of 3's. I liked the look of Silpe more, but perhaps Silpe will need to have JD's alleged shooting ability to move up in the order.

- Rothschild looked great out there. He has gotten much stronger and was incredibly active out there. He looks like Brodeur has rubbed off on him. It's nice to have two big men who are always moving and jostling for position - and are always boxing out.

- Ivy basketball is so much better than in the Schneider and Dunphy years. I was surprised at the pace of ball movement. I don't think the bottom half Ivy teams in the in the 90's had personnel athletic enough to move the ball and penetrate like these teams were doing.

- I can see why our lineups with Foreman and Donahue as our primary ball handlers were more stagnant. Foreman doesn't move the ball around as quickly as Goodman, and Donahue isn't really a direct threat with the ball in his hands. It slows down AJ and Howard when the ball isn't moving.

- AJ doesn't get much time to do his one-on-one moves or even make his backdoor passes. The Ivy teams will collapse on him quickly.

Great win!

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 15751

Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-17 07:01 AM - Post#222255    
    In response to Penndemonium

Ah, to wake up to see myself getting slammed for my comments after that ugly Brown game here at the Palestra. While I will readily acknowledge that I was down after a terrible loss and also state for the record that I would be happy to be wrong (something I said then) about Penn, here is the comment that most of you are harping on:

"I don't understand how you guys don't see this. Both Yale and Brown were light years quicker than we were and stronger too. They beat us not with long outside shots but by driving by us and if they missed, they followed and scored. Yale outrebounded us 42-31 and their guards outrebounded our guards 21-16 (and that includes Howard, who really played forward for us). Their freshman big guard Oni killed us both driving and rebounding....total mismatch as to which we had no answer. The only reason is was relatively close for a while (although we never threatened to actually win) was that we only had 9 turnovers. Against Brown, the Brown guards scored 56 of their 82 points, and repeatedly drove by us as if we were encased in lead. As I noted earlier, they managed an amazing 20 FTs from the guard position while shooting 27 FG attempts....so that is an efficiency that makes it impossible for us to win. Meanwhile, anyone not named Brodeur, Foreman or Howard looked like JV. That was the most discouraging game I have attended in years (not the worst loss, since Jerome had one of those almost every week), but we were supposed to be better and we're not. I see no way we make the playoffs. Brown is not as good as Columbia or Cornell, which has guards who will throw up 50 against us."

OK, I said that anyone not named Brodeur, Foreman or Howard looked like JV. I said we lost because of our guards. I said in another post that we had no one to make a team pay for doubling Brodeur. So what happened? Not that the guys playing that day turned from Nerdlucks into MonStars----we put Betley and Goodman out there as the major players in the backcourt and the transfers moved to the bench. So all of you guys are correct that my statement that we had no chance was wrong---but who among us at that time foresaw the insertion of Goodman and Betley?


So I rest my case. And again, I'm happy to serve my time if they make the playoff (and I have tickets for the Columbia game).

 
Streamers 
PhD Student
Posts: 1689
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-17 09:31 AM - Post#222261    
    In response to Charlie Fog

  • Charlie Fog Said:
  • Streamers Said:
JD needs to sit... now



Let him sit on Monday.



Yeah, that was right after a particularly bad sequence bricking a 3 and a turnover. He must have heard me since he started to go off (in more ways than one - he mouthed off and got a T) right after that. He was getting great looks, importantly from the spots on the floor that he likes. Not sure why they had him on Spieth though. His line says it all - Betley numbers.

All those who did not see Begley, I mean Betley, coming: search the board. We have been talking him up for a while now. One thing about being able to attend the games in person again is that I have a good look at the progress of both Betley and Goodman. A lot of what they do is off the ball and their impact was the big difference between this and the first Brown game.

We can't expect the shots to fall like that all the time, especially the FTs, but we can expect the defense to be better as a result of the set rotation and mixing the looks. We have crushed opponents off the boards in this streak (almost doubled Brown up last night, and not the result of missed shots.) We do that on Sunday and I like our chances.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4128

Reg: 11-22-04
02-18-17 09:40 AM - Post#222262    
    In response to palestra38

Well, the insertion of Betley was predictable -- it was a bit of a mystery why he didn't play in the first game, since he had been starting or playing substantial minutes off the bench every game leading up to it (and the same has been true every game since). He did have a very tough game on both ends the night before against Yale, and it would have been his first time playing a back-to-back. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was hurt or sick, since the minutes really look like an outlier.

Anyway, I think we all got the result we wanted, regardless of expectation. Nice to see us get some of the variance that seemed to consistently go against us for a while there turn our way the last two games.

 
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1051

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
02-18-17 11:25 AM - Post#222275    
    In response to SomeGuy

22 assists on 34 field goals. Pretty good, yes?


 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2125
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-17 12:43 PM - Post#222280    
    In response to palestra38

P38 - please don't take my comment seriously, as mine was meant tongue in cheek. I was right where you were after the Dartmouth game so I get it.

 
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1051

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
02-18-17 01:00 PM - Post#222282    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
Betley did have a very tough game on both ends the night before against Yale...



Well, then I guess he's got some making up to do for us on Sunday...


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 15751

Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-17 01:08 PM - Post#222283    
    In response to Mike Porter

That's OK---
I am happy to be wrong about this...even though with Betley and Goodman playing starter's minutes they are a different team.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 963

Reg: 02-15-15
02-18-17 03:22 PM - Post#222301    
    In response to palestra38

P38

There are a few qualifying posts that sort of let you off the hook but you were wrong. You said their guards were too athletic. We got more athletic with Goodman and Betley but they didn't get less athletic. We still played a lot of Howard, Jackson, Jones, AJ. Your assessment of Brown's talent was wrong. They played well last time and we played poorly. This time it was reversed. You said things like "it will take two more recruiting classes", "Brown is just better, I was there and saw it...". The game at the Palestra was an anomaly. We are more talented that Brown. Own it. You were wrong. We move on.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 15751

Reg: 11-21-04
Brown
02-18-17 03:48 PM - Post#222307    
    In response to PennFan10

Well, I don't know if I was wrong, but you clearly were right predicting a Penn win by 10.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4128

Reg: 11-22-04
02-18-17 03:52 PM - Post#222308    
    In response to Streamers

In regard to Donahue guarding Spieth, it was interesting and surprising. Not sure it didn't work though. Most of Spieth's points when the game was in doubt came off Betley when Donahue was sitting, and Brown's little run from down 7 to tie the game at 23 actually came with Spieth off the floor. So overall the way they defended seemed to result in Spieth getting his and nobody else doing much. Seemed to work, although everything seems to work when you hit your 3s and score 96.



 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 963

Reg: 02-15-15
Re: Brown
02-18-17 05:46 PM - Post#222331    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Well, I don't know if I was wrong, but you clearly were right predicting a Penn win by 10.



Oh I was just as wrong. No way I had an idea we would do that last night.

 
 Page 6 of 6 « First<3456
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

1855 Views





Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.175 seconds.   Total Queries: 17   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 10:36 PM
Top