Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Jackson Donahue
02-24-17 04:23 PM - Post#223270
In response to palestra38
literally no one "who knows basketball" has been asked such a navel-gazing question as "who's the most talented Penn player since Jerome and Matt".
literally no one.
I'm certain they'd see it my way and take "the field
including U, Ibby, Zach but whatever.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Jackson Donahue
02-24-17 04:25 PM - Post#223271
In response to Jeff2sf
also there's a tendency to over-romanticize and project out those who are injured/died. For example, I'm certain Len Bias isn't quite as good as he's been purported to be.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Jackson Donahue
02-24-17 05:01 PM - Post#223280
In response to Jeff2sf
Of course, if you change the issue and make it the most accomplished over a career, you are correct.
But none of those guys had the offensive skills of Bernardini...not even close.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Jackson Donahue
02-24-17 05:04 PM - Post#223282
In response to palestra38
i'm not changing the issue. i was going with your "talented" bull. i feel like you're changing the convo to tell me now it's only offensive skills but even still i'm quite secure that ibby and u are better.
Edited by Jeff2sf on 02-24-17 05:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Jackson Donahue
02-24-17 07:26 PM - Post#223320
In response to Jeff2sf
A couple of thoughts on all this. First, didn't we start off with who could take over a game on their own? To me, there hasn't been anyone like Rosen for that. Begley and Grandieri were very good players who could lift a team in a number of ways. But they weren't anywhere close to Rosen in terms of being able to simply take the ball and score themselves. U was such a player, but he had to have somebody else at least get him the ball where he could then drive.
As for Bernardini, he also needed help to get himself in position to score. And while Jeff is a contrarian, I just don't like hyperbole. And I don't see how Bernardini over Langel is an open and shut case, or something that anyone who watches games could/should see. Langel was a better all around player than Bernardini if you compare them as sophs, and that was before Tyler got hurt. I know P38 isn't focusing on the UNC game so much, but I don't see how we can determine the better player based on a single shooting performance when we have two entire careers that show Langel was a better shooter. I understand that there is apparently something one could see in his game that suggested ability to develop more than Matt did, but I'm certainly not capable of projecting such a thing. And I never really saw it at the time -- he seemed good offensively, but not transcendent.
To me, the odds that a healthy Bernardini would develop into what Rosen became are low. Langel is harder to quantify, because he flat-lined statistically after soph year, but he did become an All-Ivy first teamer on a 2 time league champ and score 16 in a tourney game while it was close. To me, that's probably more impressive than going off for 26 in a comfortable loss to UNC.
Edited by SomeGuy on 02-24-17 07:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Jackson Donahue
02-24-17 08:01 PM - Post#223323
In response to Jeff2sf
literally no one "who knows basketball" has been asked such a navel-gazing question as "who's the most talented Penn player since Jerome and Matt".
literally no one.
I'm certain they'd see it my way and take "the field
including U, Ibby, Zach but whatever.
How did you omit the last Quaker center?
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