Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-24-17 01:33 PM - Post#223222
In response to Cvonvorys
As good as Begley was, his era always had some other talent. As a Junior, Schiffner was he heart of that team, and as a Senior he had some good sophs in Zoller, Danley, and Ibby
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 01:33 PM - Post#223223
In response to TheLine
Bernardini was probably the most talented player we have had since Allen and Maloney. I would put Rosen in Ibby's class for sure and Eggleston put up better numbers than Danley. Biggest difference as I see it was the coach...and key injuries.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
02-24-17 01:34 PM - Post#223224
In response to Cvonvorys
I'm not sure what we're comparing anymore, but if it is still Zack Rosen then neither Begley nor Grandieri are comparables.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 01:39 PM - Post#223226
In response to palestra38
The bernardini more talented than U (or Rosen) is so laughable as to be absurd.
i'm also as smart as einstein. just because i say it enough doesn't make it true.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 01:41 PM - Post#223227
In response to Jeff2sf
The bernardini more talented than U (or Rosen) is so laughable as to be absurd.
Dude, don't forget Ibby.
And we're just talking about the guys who are no-brainers.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-24-17 01:47 PM - Post#223228
In response to TheLine
A bunch of those guys are still playing professionally:
http://www.leicesterriders.co.uk/roster/tyler-bern...
http://www.besacrc-basket.fr/joueur.php?j=9469
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=128LqSRbgfU
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 01:49 PM - Post#223230
In response to Jeff2sf
Yes, your statistics are what defines you. It might have helped you to have watched him play. No one since Keven McDonald had as complete an offensive game as Bernardini. U wasn't close. He did other things, though. They were totally different players. But had Bernardini not been injured, he would have been a 20ppg guy.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 02:14 PM - Post#223238
In response to palestra38
What the f dude. Where would you get that I've never watched Tyler Bernardini play. I mean, maybe he was MAYBE MAYBE as good as Matt Langel. And that's pretty good. But the idea he was in the same ballpark as U, Ibby (knew I was forgetting someone) and Zack is just so off. it's wrong. it's dumb. it's stupid. i'm trying to not use fakenews or alternative facts but it's that insulting to me.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 02:21 PM - Post#223240
In response to Jeff2sf
It's insulting to all basketball fans everywhere if you think that Matt Langel was as talented a player as Tyler Bernardini. It's when you make comments like that that it's clear that if you do ever watch the games, you don't consider anything but the stats. Ugonna, as I pointed out, had very different skills but he couldn't shoot from 25, drive hard with either hand and stop for a 10 footer off a hard dribble. Great player, but different. And Zack was a guy who improved himself more than anyone I ever saw, but didn't have close to Tyler's skills offensively. That foot just did him in as a Penn player.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 02:23 PM - Post#223242
In response to palestra38
Ughhhhhh. i mean the line also sees this as a silly statement. you're just such bad talent evaluator. but hey, keep doing you.
also you don't have to "stop hard from 10 feet" or whatever if you can dunk the basketball over fools.
tyler wishes he had as dominant a performance as Ugonna did over GTech in preseason NIT or against OK State in NCAAs. That's talent.
Edited by Jeff2sf on 02-24-17 02:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 02:34 PM - Post#223245
In response to Jeff2sf
LOL, in order to know basketball better than I would require you to watch your first game. But few would make as silly a statement as Langel was more talented than Bernardini. You simply post on these boards to get a rise out of people.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 02:36 PM - Post#223247
In response to palestra38
And Zack was a guy who improved himself more than anyone I ever saw, but didn't have close to Tyler's skills offensively.
This statement leaves me at a loss for words.
We're comparing all-time greats to your alternate reality where Bernardini doesn't get injured and also makes a huge performance leap. It's impossible to debate that.
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
|
02-24-17 02:39 PM - Post#223248
In response to Jeff2sf
Michael Jordan is my best comp for Rosen. Those were two guys who didn't have the purest of skills or athleticism, but were so determined that they couldn't be stopped. They could control the whole floor.
My next closest comp for that intensity would have been Paul Chambers, but he didn't have the finishing skills of those guys or the supporting cast to carry it through to a championship. But I still always think that he created the winning culture at Penn, lifting a terrible team (with a Freshman Jerome Allen) to second place and closely challenging a terrific Princeton team.
|
Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Jackson Donahue 02-24-17 03:22 PM - Post#223255
In response to Jeff2sf
tyler wishes he had as dominant a performance as Ugonna did over GTech in preseason NIT or against OK State in NCAAs. That's talent.
Clearly you did not see Tyler drop 26 on UNC in '08 as I did:
Bernardini Min 31 FG 9-18 3FG 4-9 FT 4-6 Pts 26
I think Matt Langel himself would dispute your conclusion.
But these comparisons losing their meaning in the sense that we are mixing positions, styles, eras, etc. If this is an 'MVP' of their teams comparison this century, I'd go Rosen, Ibby, MJ in that order.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
02-24-17 03:35 PM - Post#223256
In response to Streamers
if you really want me to walk back langel, I will (mainly because I just can't remember that well). I think of him as a guy who could do more than just shoot which a Sam Jones or Scott Kegler could not necessarily do more. But if that helps, fine.
The idea that Bernardini was in the same convo as U r Ibby is just so pathetic though. If you want to say you can't compare a big guy, Ibby is a guard. he had way more talent than Tyler. Way more.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-24-17 03:47 PM - Post#223259
In response to Jeff2sf
Roy Williams on Bernardini after than NC-Penn game: "“Why the dickens didn’t we recruit him?â€
|
Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-24-17 03:55 PM - Post#223262
In response to Jeff2sf
The idea that Bernardini was in the same convo as U r Ibby is just so pathetic though. If you want to say you can't compare a big guy, Ibby is a guard. he had way more talent than Tyler. Way more.
Stop; Tyler never had a chance to fulfill his potential at Penn due to injuries (like a few other guys I can think of - in fact - that would make for a nice off-season thread to rank those folks.)
There is no point comparing actual careers with hypothetical ones.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-24-17 03:58 PM - Post#223264
In response to Streamers
The problem is that Jeff simply enjoys being the contrarian. So although I was clear that Tyler never reached his full potential at Penn because of injury and I was just speaking of his talent as a player when healthy, he tries to change the discussion to numbers at Penn.
But I still think Bernardini was the most talented offensive player that Penn has had since Matt Maloney and would have put up numbers similar to Keven McDonald had he been healthy. But yes, that is all hypothetical. We only got to see flashes.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
02-24-17 04:04 PM - Post#223266
In response to palestra38
yes and you're still wrong no matter how often you type what you think. i'm not saying it with stats. i'm saying it with eye test.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-24-17 04:17 PM - Post#223269
In response to Jeff2sf
Well so you think. Those that know basketball disagree.
|