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Username Post: Boudreaux Player Of The Week        (Topic#19970)
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-01-17 07:24 PM - Post#224192    
    In response to hoops123

What makes you think POY is stats based in other conferences? My other alma mater is in the Big Ten. The Big Ten POY has never come from a team with a losing conference record. In fact, there have only been a handful of instances where the winner wasn't on a team that finished top two. Just two years ago, a kid on a losing team led the conference in scoring. He didn't make first team. One other player averaged over 18 on a losing team and didn't even make 2nd team. This isn't just the Ivy -- this is every conference.

As for nobody stopping Boudreaux, the name of the game is winning. If I win 65-55, it doesn't matter to me if the opponent's leading scorer had 14 or 35. We stopped him enough.

A final point on this -- the efficiency numbers are actually such that, if everyone on a team plays at Boudreaux's efficiency level, the team will lose more often than not. There are 4 other guys on the team who are more efficient. There is an argument that, to win games, Boudreaux actually should be giving the ball up rather than fighting double teams on his way to an inefficient 18 and 10.

 
Cooper 
Sophomore
Posts: 126

Reg: 11-22-04
03-01-17 07:41 PM - Post#224195    
    In response to SomeGuy

Hello? Does anybody on this board pay attention to DEFENSE? It's not all about scoring points and grabbing rebounds. Wouldn't it make sense to include the defense played/not played by Evan Boudreaux to the conversation?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1040

Reg: 02-15-15
Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-01-17 07:59 PM - Post#224201    
    In response to hoops123

I believe what Mr James is saying is that if any of those 3 were on Dartmouth, they may be doing the same thing EB is doing.

Myles Stephens is probably the best 2 way player in the Ivy League.

I believe EB should be a lock for 1st team (and I think one of those 3 Princeton guys might get bumped to 2nd team to allow for it) but, as good as he is on the offensive end, he is a below average defender and that matters for POY.

Edited by PennFan10 on 03-01-17 08:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3274

Reg: 11-23-04
03-01-17 08:38 PM - Post#224205    
    In response to hoops123

Rest assured there we multiple versions of POY, ROY and All-Ivy teams on these boards.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-01-17 10:54 PM - Post#224219    
    In response to SomeGuy

I'll let Steve Donahue do the talking:

“Evan is a 20-and-10 guy in league play, and I don’t remember anyone ever doing that,” coach Steve Donahue said. “You just have to gameplan for him. The crazy part is his game against us last time was one of his average games.”



 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-01-17 11:00 PM - Post#224220    
    In response to hoops123

Yes, and that was a game where Dartmouth won, so Penn certainly failed to stop him. I am curious, though, what the gameplan will really be this time around. Against Spieth, Penn actually seemed to go to a guard everybody else and let Spieth get his type of strategy at Brown, and it worked. I'm sure Penn will have some different looks to show him this weekend, but one might actually be not doubling him.

It also may help that the guy who normally would defend Evan presumably won't be sick this time.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1040

Reg: 02-15-15
03-01-17 11:15 PM - Post#224222    
    In response to SomeGuy

Pretty sure AJ will guard Evan. And then Max before Matt. I could be wrong...

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
03-02-17 03:44 AM - Post#224232    
    In response to PennFan10

Maybe this time. That wasn't the main matchup at Dartmouth. I think the issue is that Brodeur can't help outi In the middle if he has to guard Boudreaux. Same issue as Petrasek last week. Eventually, they had to put AJ on him anyway and play Rothschild in the middle, but that was only after nobody else could stop him.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1040

Reg: 02-15-15
03-02-17 10:47 AM - Post#224264    
    In response to SomeGuy

Petrasek is a much different player than Evan. Petrasek wanders to the outside and Evan is comfortable banging or playing the perimeter. Petrasek does not like playing with his back to the basket. You can get away with playing a smaller defender on Petrasek because he isn't very physical. Evan will destroy you if you don't have a big on him, and then he will destroy you anyway. Max and Aj are the only ones who have the size to check Boudreaux. Even then he has averaged 20 and 10 against us every game since his arrival in Hanover so it really hasn't mattered.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 49

Reg: 11-30-16
Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-02-17 11:38 AM - Post#224273    
    In response to PennFan10

Little late to chime in here- but Boudreaux should certainly make 1st team, and while i think he is a POY candidate I dont think he will get it being a sophomore on a bad team.

Offensively he is a stud and I would challenge the idea that anyone on princeton could come into Dartmouth and put up similar numbers. We barely get the ball up the court. If he gives the ball up, like you suggest SomeGuy, we will lose by 20+ points. His PER is at 19.83, 7th in the league and well above what would be considered average at 15. As a total rating, it would suggest that even though he has high usage he has been playing pretty damn well. For the record, Stephens (18.72 (14th), and Weisz (22nd, 16.85) are trailing by a solid amount. TLDR; His efficiency numbers arent such that we would lose every game. In fact, if everyone on Dartmouth posted a 19.83 PER we would win the league, probably by a solid margin.

On to defense, I'd make the arguement that Boudreaux is a capable and solid defender in the post and a mediocre defender on the wing. He is averaging more steals per game than your defensive "stud" Stephens (.8 vs .7) while also not getting himself into foul trouble. Boudreaux routinely takes on the other teams 5 and has become a solid inside defender. He will never contribute blocks, and his footspeed might be a little slow to fully defend a drive from the wing, but to say that he doesnt contribute defensively to Dartmouth is absurd. He might be the most solid/consistent defender on the team. (I'll qualify that by also noting that we are arguably the worst defensive team in the league)

On to this weekend and the rare chance to say I'm keeping my hope alive.

Edited by SomeDartmouthStudent on 03-02-17 11:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Frodo 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 4

Age: 52
Reg: 01-27-16
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-02-17 06:03 PM - Post#224336    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

Agree - little late to Chime in but...

I have read some interesting things in this thread. As far as POY or first team who knows. Hard to win POY on last place team. its a beauty contest. That being said, I know about Evan from AAU and Chicago days. Only reason I read Ivy League material. Saw this thread and shook my head. So...

For folks who speculate Boudreaux wouldn't put up numbers like this on a better team I have to disagree. He would, and be more efficient. I look back to his AAU team loaded with D1 players. He was playing a year up, lead them in scoring and rebounding and they won the National championship on ESPN. Point guard was Jevon Carter (WVU) forward Simmie Cobb (Indiana WR but D1 hoop prospect) can't remember all the names but 5 or 6 D1 player and Evan still dominated. Won MVP of NY2LA National tournament, again leading scorer and rebounder on a team that won that national tournament. Last year when he was unknown entering the Ivy his efficiency numbers were much better. Honestly, with better players around him he would score more easily as teams couldn't double and triple team him. No one in the ivy league has stopped him one on one for two years now (and save the team sport argument).
Rebounding - folks can speculate on who is better but that's all it is...speculation. When Boudreaux has faced Zena his numbers are still good. Boudreaux is averaging almost 10 a game this year in all play. Boudreaux's all around game is good enough that he stays on the floor and produces at a rate of almost 3 boards a game better than anyone else while getting the focus of attention from other teams. Zena doesn't, period.
Bottom line, Boudreaux would start and produce on any Ivy team at a high level. He would also produce on the bigger schools that recruited him (Iowa, I St, G tech, Butler, BC, etc).

Bottom line, there are not 5 better all around players in the Ivy league. Certainly none who produce night in and night out like Boudreaux.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1040

Reg: 02-15-15
03-02-17 07:24 PM - Post#224343    
    In response to Frodo

Frodo,

Tell me about his defensive exploits in AAU? You see in college, you actually have to play defense like most of the Princeton guys do.

And I don't think anyone said EB wouldn't produce on a better team. The point is, with better players, he doesn't need to take as many shots. He may be more efficient on another team. We saw POY Justin Sears last year or Harvard's guy from 2 years ago. Plenty of examples.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
03-02-17 08:08 PM - Post#224348    
    In response to PennFan10

The question is whether AJ is able to guard the middle and help with Evan. If he's guarding him, then there isn't anyone to help.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-02-17 08:43 PM - Post#224360    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

Sorry I didn't use the term efficiency with enough specificity. I was referring to ORATs, not PER. You are correct that his PER is well above the winning threshold. ORAT is not.

I also don't mean to ignore defense -- just meeting hoops123 where his argument is. I think there are arguments that, even offensively, he shouldn't be first team. Defense is an easier argument yo make, but also much less quantifiable. We can quantify team defense, though, and there I think Brown is worse.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-02-17 08:52 PM - Post#224363    
    In response to Frodo

A couple of caveats on Zena. The double team thing is true this year. Last year, when Zena was the focal point of Harvard's offense, he got simlar double team treatment.

Also, on the rebounding, note that this year, in game 2 Zena got 21% of available rebounds, while Boudreaux got only 11%. First game, both got about 25%. So Zena has outrebounded him this year (and they split the games last year, too.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-02-17 10:13 PM - Post#224372    
    In response to SomeGuy

In conference his ORAT is 103.8, above avg.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-02-17 10:27 PM - Post#224375    
    In response to SomeGuy

Maybe I should have used more quotes from the article....

"It was a surprise to many when the Red and Blue failed to win against the Big Green during a road trip earlier this season.

The game swayed back and forth, but in the end, Dartmouth forward Evan Boudreaux gave Penn more than it could handle, recording a double-double that included a game-sealing jumper inside two minutes. Also notable were his 12 rebounds, significantly more than Ryan Betley, who was Penn’s most effective rebounder with a mere five.

“Evan is a 20-and-10 guy in league play, and I don’t remember anyone ever doing that,” coach Steve Donahue said. “You just have to gameplan for him. The crazy part is his game against us last time was one of his average games.”



 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4166

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-03-17 07:45 AM - Post#224398    
    In response to hoops123

Not sure who was surprised by the game at Hanover. It certainly scared the heck out of me. As does the game tonight.

The Penn game up there is one of the very few times Boudreaux has lifted his team to victory. If there were more games like that, I think a lot more people would view him as a POY candidate or a lock for 1st team.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 74

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-04-17 12:16 AM - Post#224618    
    In response to SomeGuy

Are you serious? You've obviously not watched many Dartmouth games. Boudreaux has won many games in 2 years, including last second shots. PS, how'd you like him destroying your front court tonight? 16 and 12. Another double double. Better check his efficiency numbers to make sure he's a still a good player. If his efficiency numbers aren't good, maybe you didn't lose. Oh, and I don't think SD's game plan (that according to you doesn't happen) worked too well. Might want to adjust a few of your Evan beliefs.

 
Frodo 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 4

Age: 52
Reg: 01-27-16
Re: Boudreaux Player Of The Week
03-04-17 01:37 AM - Post#224634    
    In response to SomeGuy

Not sure what you are missing when watching Boudreaux. Tonight's game was pretty typical. We all know his usuall stats, pts and rebounds. If you watch the game you notice Boudreaux doing the little things. Shutting down the big men for Penn (combined for 15-8 in 42 minutes with Brodeur getting 4 fouls). Brodeur had 3 offensive boards. What the stats don't show is why. First two came when Boudreaux left him and blocked a shot. AJ got the O rebound, missed his shot and got his 2nd O rebound and missed again. His 3rd O board came again when Boudreaux helped on D (and this time he scored). Otherwise only 5 boards for brown big men against mostly Boudreaux in42 minutes.
On offense Dartmouth moved the ball well tonight. What your precious stats don't show is all of the wide open 3's D gets because Penn had to drop off and double/triple team boudreaux. In the second half the few times the double didn't come Boudreaux made jump hooks or 3 pt plays.
Final line 16 pts 12rb 2 blocked shots, 1 steal, 1 assist. But the 3 deflected passes, the one on one D in the paint, the attention he takes that makes the game easier for others...invaluable. Yes he made mistakes but was clearly the best player on the floor...again. Oh, and a win...nice.

Edited by Frodo on 03-04-17 01:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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