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Username Post: tie breaker rules        (Topic#19976)
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4142

Reg: 11-22-04
02-22-17 07:32 AM - Post#222971    
    In response to Bryan

It's a little unclear, but it does say an "average" of the indices. I assume that means an average national rank among the indices, which seems very unlikely to end in a tie. If I am correct, whether there is an odd or even number of inputs wouldn't make a difference.


 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 872

Reg: 11-21-04
tie breaker rules
02-22-17 07:39 AM - Post#222972    
    In response to Bryan

Tie-break #3 is the average of the 4 ratings, Bryan, not which team is higher rated in the most of the 4 systems. I would image the odds of a tie there would be off the charts (Mike James?) As someone who is concerned about the NCAA tournament seeding of the Ivy representative, I like #3.

Edited by TigerFan on 02-22-17 07:40 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4651

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-22-17 08:42 AM - Post#222974    
    In response to TigerFan

Correct. They're going to do an average of the rank, which would be very difficult to have end in a tie. And that's explicitly what the coaches wanted: drawing lots wasn't palatable so they wanted something that would essentially ensure we wouldn't end up there.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3094

Reg: 02-04-06
02-22-17 02:21 PM - Post#223023    
    In response to mrjames

Last tiebreaker should be head coaches' three-point shooting contest. Talk about fan and media interest!

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3062

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
02-22-17 02:57 PM - Post#223027    
    In response to SRP

I heard it would be a game of HORSE. Avoid a tiebreak with Brown.

Actual scenarios will be clearer after the weekend. There are too many right now.


 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2754

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
02-26-17 11:25 PM - Post#223824    
    In response to TheLine

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/c ollege/...

This seems to be the word.
west coast fan


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3094

Reg: 02-04-06
02-26-17 11:54 PM - Post#223826    
    In response to internetter

The delightful simplicity and manifest logic of this system shine forth.

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1803

Reg: 03-02-08
02-27-17 07:57 AM - Post#223831    
    In response to SRP

A one game play in on a neutral court would make the most sense.


 
Columbia Alum 
Junior
Posts: 201

Age: 31
Reg: 11-15-11
02-27-17 09:31 AM - Post#223838    
    In response to Chet Forte

agree with you for a two-way tie but for 3-4 way ties becomes tricky and impractical.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 716

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
02-27-17 09:37 AM - Post#223839    
    In response to Columbia Alum

Flip a damn coin. It makes as much sense as the rest of this mess. I'm cheering for the fourth place team no matter what.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Sophomore
Posts: 190

Age: 69
Reg: 12-04-15
02-27-17 10:20 AM - Post#223842    
    In response to section110

It is my understanding that the womens team's coaches agreed to a coin flip as the last tie-breaker, but the men would not.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3062

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
tie breaker rules
02-27-17 10:32 AM - Post#223845    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

If I'm understanding correctly overwhelmingly likely scenarios are:

- If Penn beats Harvard then Columbia needs to beat Yale. Root for Cornell over Yale and Brown over Cornell.

- If Penn loses to Harvard then win any one game this weekend.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9368

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: tie breaker rules
02-27-17 10:48 AM - Post#223847    
    In response to TheLine

Root for Cornell, period. If we beat Harvard and Columbia beats Y, it may come down to where Cornell and Brown end up in the final standings. Penn wins the tiebreaker with Columbia in terms of the Cornell H-T-H but Columbia would win it the tiebreaker if Brown finishes ahead of Cornell.

If we lose to Harvard, we have to have beaten D the night before or in all probability we are eliminated. And even if we did beat D, Columbia would need to lose both games--Columbia would win the tiebreaker because they beat Harvard once this year.

  • TheLine Said:
If I'm understanding correctly overwhelmingly likely scenarios are:

- If Penn beats Harvard then Columbia needs to beat Yale. Root for Cornell over Yale and Brown over Cornell.

- If Penn loses to Harvard then win any one game this weekend.





Edited by penn nation on 02-27-17 10:51 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2030

Reg: 11-23-04
tie breaker rules
02-27-17 12:58 PM - Post#223862    
    In response to penn nation

Well, the stupid and annoying tourney has definitely aroused fan interest. I'll concede it that, although I never questioned that aspect. I wonder if dropping $10 bills from an airplane over the South Bronx would arouse the neighborhood?

OK, ignore what I just said in jest. Since the tourney was what the players, coaches and ADs wanted, we have it and it certainly has sparked tha also-rans in the later stage of the season.

But, since there is little immediate prospect for a second bid, can we tweak the tourney rules next year to give more recognition to the 14 game winner while still leaving the door open for a strong contender to take away the bid? I'm afraid that harvard now looks to be the regular season favorite for next season. But, I don't think it's right that any champion (not even Penn ) or harvard) face the additional barriers that Princeton may have to this year without so much as a bye or home court advantage in the tourney.

 
Bryan 
Sophomore
Posts: 108

Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
02-27-17 01:32 PM - Post#223869    
    In response to SomeGuy

Thanks to you, Tiger69 and mrjames for explaining the way the tiebreaker works with regard to the four indices. Sorry I got it wrong and I agree the likelihood of a tie when all are added together is quite small.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2030

Reg: 11-23-04
02-27-17 08:08 PM - Post#223939    
    In response to Bryan

And, thanks to you, Bryan, for crediting me with something I didn't do --explaining tie breakers--which I do not even remotely understand. There has been an awful lot of thought devoted here to a very little. However, I will have to eat my words if, somehow, the eventual #4 seed goes on to win the bid.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9368

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: tie breaker rules
02-27-17 08:11 PM - Post#223940    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
But, I don't think it's right that any champion (not even Penn ) or harvard) face the additional barriers that Princeton may have to this year without so much as a bye or home court advantage in the tourney.



Now wait just a minute--you've earned the right to wear the home Ts. That's worth 3 whole points at minimum.


 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1803

Reg: 03-02-08
02-27-17 09:31 PM - Post#223945    
    In response to penn nation

The tournament has given meaning to the end of the season for teams which would otherwise have been mathematically eliminated from playing for anything other than pride. I am glad that I was at the Penn Columbia game. It was one of the most intense, hard fought and basically evenly matched Ivy games that I have seen in years. Every possession was a war. Both teams played their hearts out. Maybe I wouldn't have been writing this if we had lost, to be sure, but it was really just a fantastic game to watch.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4142

Reg: 11-22-04
02-27-17 09:59 PM - Post#223952    
    In response to Chet Forte

Yup. I thought it was awesome to watch, and the effort on both sides was great.



 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1399

Reg: 02-14-06
03-02-17 07:21 PM - Post#224342    
    In response to SomeGuy

Not sure I understand some of the tiebreaker scenarios posted on the Penn athletics website that were supposedly worked-up by Mr. James and others. In a couple of the scenarios such as where both Columbia and Penn sweep both weekend games, the Penn athletics website states that the third tiebreaker would kick in and Penn would get the fourth tournament place because Columbia and Penn's records against Dartmouth and Brown combined would both be 2-2. However, that seems incorrect because Columbia's actual record against Dartmouth and Brown combined would be 3-1, and not 2-2 so Columbia would seem to win the tiebreaker. Would someone please explain this?

 
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