Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 01:59 AM - Post#223699
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Tough game, but unfortunately was very evenly matched and the home team made just a few more plays to pull out the win. We just don't have enough quality yet to consistently win these games. I thought AJ played his best offensive game in a while, but wasn't enough to make up for off games from Betley, Howard and Foreman.
Howard clearly was still feeling effects of collision yesterday because he wasn't his normal self. Tough timing for sure. Betley also had a tough game on O and in particular missed a lot of drives he has been making (think Columbia's size affected him). Goodman also had good moments, but balanced by freshman moments - particularly when he bit on Smith's fake on that heck of a step back 3.
Now we have to put up or shut up next weekend... need to win both at home to feel good.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-26-17 10:18 AM - Post#223710
In response to Mike Porter
There were a lot of mistakes that came to mind in a winnable game. But I'll rest with the positive - that the team played hard, gave itself a chance to win, and never stopped competing. Those are cultural elements of the team which bode well for the next two years. I can always support a team that plays that way.
They were playing against a team with its back against the wall, on an away court, and on senior night. Columbia is a very physical team with big athletic players all over the floor.
I liked the way Betley played, despite some missed finishes. He really plays within himself and we finally have someone who we can count on to make free throws. He is a piece of the puzzle for us.
Again, it felt to me that the game started to slip when Goodman was out and Foreman was handling the ball. Foreman doesn't move the ball as quickly - his dribbling is more tentative and the team's motion and passing just slows down with him at point. He is much better for us off the ball.
The most fun part of the game was that I actually cared. I was watching on-line and I was hanging on every play. It's been a while since a late Feb. game meant something.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-26-17 10:43 AM - Post#223717
In response to Mike Porter
I think C's size affected the whole team close to the basket. With rare exceptions, we tended to shy away from contact and put up awkward looking shots with altered arcs to avoid potential blocks. That was not a winning strategy.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 10:59 AM - Post#223724
In response to Penndemonium
I still don't get the tiebreakers either. We were debating this on the way home last night. I'm going with the consensus right now and thinking Penn really needs to beat Harvard, otherwise you need beat Dartmouth and hope Columbia gets swept.
As for last night, not sure there was one key problem. Lots of little things went wrong as detailed above. Mostly Columbia just made the plays down the stretch, especially their electric freshman Smith. For some reason, we did not have Goodman on him for that 12 on 12 matchup as much as we did in the first game and that hurt us. It's not as if Devon was not on the floor. Also give credit to the defensive job they did on Betley. Engles was watching the video and told his kids to deny him the ball which they did, especially in the first half.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-26-17 11:10 AM - Post#223726
In response to Streamers
Goodman and Hamilton were disruptive to Columbias offense in spots and made some good plays on the other end too
I wonder if we will see that 4 guard lineup again next weekend with those two in there. As a change of pace it can be very effective depending on who's on the floor for the opposition
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-26-17 11:47 AM - Post#223729
In response to penn nation
I liked the look of Hamilton as a Howard replacement for next year. He looked like he has bulked up during the season. He played good D and made a few good plays. He also hit an open 3.
We got an open Jackson Donahue long 3 pointer as our last play, and a less open one off the rebound. Our chances were less than 50%, and we came up tails. Oh well.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-26-17 12:01 PM - Post#223733
In response to Penndemonium
I liked the look of Hamilton as a Howard replacement for next year. He looked like he has bulked up during the season.
W
As has the hair.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 12:14 PM - Post#223736
In response to penn nation
Hamilton and Goodman bring much needed quickness on D that you really need against teams like Columbia. I agree Hamilton should get a lot of Howard's minutes (although Simmons may something to say about that) but Tyler, like Matt before him, needs to become a more reliable shooter from outside.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1117
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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02-26-17 12:23 PM - Post#223739
In response to Streamers
Hamilton has the size to play but does not hit threes. He is passive on offense. Big improvement is required for him to contribute to a contender.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 12:35 PM - Post#223742
In response to UPIA1968
Based on what we know of the incoming recruits I can't see Hamilton getting more minutes barring a major improvement in his game.
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73Quaker
Freshman
Posts: 61
Loc: NC
Reg: 03-12-09
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02-26-17 12:45 PM - Post#223746
In response to Streamers
One key problem not mentioned so far is the fatigue we saw late. Missing Max and Matt Howard for 60 minutes on Friday meant more court time for others, particularly AJ and Betley. Believe that caught up with us down the stretch.
Columbia took their foot off the gas after Princeton moved ahead in the 2nd half on Friday while we pushed for a full 40 minutes at Cornell. Playing on Sunday afternoon the past 2 weekends helped us deal with the back-to-back fatigue problem, especially the freshmen.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 12:53 PM - Post#223749
In response to Chip Bayers
From Twitter this morning:
@ivybball: Want to get this right: @IvyLeague @Ivy_Basketball... For TB2: are all 8 Ivies "seeded" for record vs. purposes, or just the tourney teams?
@ivybball: @IvyLeague @Ivy_Basketball And, if so, how will ties at a lower seed be treated as you break higher seed ties working down the ladder?
@Ivy_Basketball: @ivybball it would go 1-8. We will update the #IvyMadness site for more clarity. Thank you!
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-26-17 01:05 PM - Post#223754
In response to Chip Bayers
See the get the lawyers thread in the Ivy League subject head for more
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8141
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 01:17 PM - Post#223756
In response to 73Quaker
One key problem not mentioned so far is the fatigue we saw late. Missing Max and Matt Howard for 60 minutes on Friday meant more court time for others, particularly AJ and Betley. Believe that caught up with us down the stretch.
Yes this also came up at the game last night. The tell is when AJ starts missing that baby hook short as he did a couple of tines and I think it played a role on that 1-1 he missed on. They were making Betley work hard all night at both ends as well.
Levien on Saturday is always a tough spot and has been since they built it. Even some of the best Penn teams have come up short there.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23199
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 01:33 PM - Post#223759
In response to Streamers
Exactly. No shame there.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 01:51 PM - Post#223761
In response to 10Q
Shame is irrelevant--but it is disappointing how close we were to the playoffs but let it get away with turnovers, 2 missed FTs and a missed makeable shot. Meanwhile, Columbia hit a very difficult shot to win it.
So it hurts. And now we just have to win and hope that it doesn't come down to a loss to Brown.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23199
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 02:04 PM - Post#223763
In response to palestra38
To long suffering fans shame is relevant. Overruled.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-26-17 03:04 PM - Post#223773
In response to penn nation
We didn't play poorly against Columbia. Despite Mr James theory, we made more 3's (10), shot a better % from 3 (41%) than Columbia. We also had only 11 turnovers and 17 assists, made 84% of our FT and stayed pretty close in rebounds (33 to 36).
Columbia made a couple more plays than us. That's it. Mike Smith made a huge step back 3 and then AJ missed the exact same jump hook that won it the night before. Jackson missed the same 3 he made earlier in the game to tie. Pretty even game, we didn't win.
Gotta keep playing this weekend to have a shot. let's go.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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02-26-17 06:48 PM - Post#223797
In response to Streamers
I would caution everyone on the expectations for the frosh.
I watched Simmons' game, and I thought he looked terrific for a HS Penn recruit. He probably has the physical talent to be a starter on our team. His skills seem either there or almost there. But I'm not sure based on what I saw whether he will be ready for the physicality and pace of college ball. It seems like his motor isn't quite ready for Ivy weekends yet. It's hard to judge in a HS game, and a summer of growth and development is huge for athletes his age. If he keeps working and improving, he will be a great Penn player and an important piece of the puzzle. I'm not ready to anoint him a starter yet based on what I saw, though.
I was hoping he would be big and physical enough to move AJ to the 4. He may get there, but not today. He surprised me with his quickness, though. Maybe I had their roles backwards.
I have the same thoughts on Williams and Scott - all 3 of them look very promising, but none are certain starters for me. Hopefully 1 or 2 of them will emerge over the course of next season as starters. If so, that would bode very well for the team.
Hamilton and Goodman bring much needed quickness on D that you really need against teams like Columbia. I agree Hamilton should get a lot of Howard's minutes (although Simmons may something to say about that) but Tyler, like Matt before him, needs to become a more reliable shooter from outside.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-26-17 07:19 PM - Post#223803
In response to PennFan10
In the specific scenario where Penn made 1 more three than Columbia, I had its winning percentage at 47% vs. 46% overall.
Sims where Penn made 2 and 3 more were about 58%. Four was 69% and five was 79%. The rest were 80+%.
The turnovers were more surprising. At just 11 turnovers, I had Penn winning about 65% of games. That's not surprising, though, as it was the Quakers' defense, not its offense, that let it down yesterday.
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