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Username Post: Strategy for Next Weekend        (Topic#20019)
Columbia Alum 
Junior
Posts: 201

Age: 31
Reg: 11-15-11
02-26-17 09:16 AM - Post#223704    

Sorry, reposting this in a new thread because I feel it's important. Hopefully someone in the team or coaching staff sees this and gets it.

Strategy: we need to only focus on Brown this week.

If penn beat Dartmouth at home, which they certainly will. We must beat Brown away. And strangely, after that the Yale game is becomes 100% irrelevant for us... both penn and Columbia will be 6-7. If penn goes 7-7 by beating H, even if we beat Y, and go 7-7 we're out. If penn goes 6-8 losing to H, even if we lose to Y we're in!

So we need to spend this whole week prepping for Brown, who is now eliminated from the tourney race, through tiebreakers.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1386

Reg: 02-14-06
02-26-17 09:57 AM - Post#223705    
    In response to Columbia Alum

I'm not following your logic. Wouldn't Columbia get the fourth spot if both teams finish 7-7?

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
02-26-17 09:59 AM - Post#223706    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

No. The tiebreakers favor Penn if Penn beats Harvard. Tie breakers are HTH (split). Then record against other seeds in tourney (same in that scenario) then rankings (Penn would win)

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
02-26-17 10:01 AM - Post#223707    
    In response to PennFan10

If Penn doesn't beat Harvard, Columbia owns second tiebreaker by virtue of better record against other tourney teams (because they beat Harvard)

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1386

Reg: 02-14-06
02-26-17 10:09 AM - Post#223709    
    In response to PennFan10

What happens in the scenario where Penn defeats Dartmouth and Columbia loses to Brown Friday night and then Penn loses to Harvard and Columbia defeats Yale Saturday night?

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1786

Reg: 03-02-08
02-26-17 10:36 AM - Post#223714    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

The 800 pound gorilla in the room is that the notorious home cooking that Penn has enjoyed for years at the Palestra will reach gargantuan proportions next weekend.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9175

Reg: 12-02-04
02-26-17 10:37 AM - Post#223715    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Columbia would win the 2nd tiebreaker by having gone 1-1 against the #2 seed (H) while Penn would have gone 0-2 against H.

 
Charlie Fog 
Junior
Posts: 291

Age: 48
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
02-26-17 10:44 AM - Post#223719    
    In response to Chet Forte

Looked like some good home cooking last night for Columbia

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1386

Reg: 02-14-06
02-26-17 10:59 AM - Post#223723    
    In response to penn nation

Is it correct to say that if Penn loses to Harvard Saturday night, then Columbia will get the fourth spot in the Tournament as long as it defeats either Brown or Yale.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9175

Reg: 12-02-04
02-26-17 11:03 AM - Post#223725    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Yes

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1984

Reg: 11-23-04
02-26-17 11:45 AM - Post#223728    
    In response to penn nation

Crazy, huh? So next year I suggest that we go to 7 team tourney with Champion receiving first round bye - a rather modest reward for its 14 game success.. If there are co-champs, then 6 teams, etc. From there it gets fun.

Also, higher seed gets home floor in all games, including the final. Even if games are not played in the vaunted Palestra, there will be more venues with all spectators having skin in the game. If, in a given game, say Dartmouth or harvard has the higher seed, it wins the advantage of its band box gym and an energized crowd. Free peanuts for everyone -- except #8. Well, life doesn't promise everyone second chances

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9175

Reg: 12-02-04
02-26-17 12:00 PM - Post#223732    
    In response to Tiger69

The theory is fine. The devil is in the details.

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1984

Reg: 11-23-04
02-26-17 12:05 PM - Post#223735    
    In response to penn nation

You mean, like, 5 co-champs?

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 871

Reg: 11-21-04
02-26-17 12:33 PM - Post#223741    
    In response to Tiger69

I think we can go one step better next year: each school is in the tournament but they bring combined men's and women's teams. Seedings are determined by averaging each school's two team's conference rankings as determine by the average of their best and lowest scores in four computer ratings systems. Top four seeded teams must play no more than three representatives from the men's team and no fewer than two members of the women's team at any one time. Lowest four seeds must play no fewer than three members of their women's team and no more than two members of their men's team at any one time. Double or nothing ticket to the NCAA tournaments.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9175

Reg: 12-02-04
02-26-17 12:44 PM - Post#223745    
    In response to TigerFan

If it increases the chances of the Tigers getting shut out I'm all for it

Had more than my fill of orange in this country of late



 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 871

Reg: 11-21-04
02-26-17 12:56 PM - Post#223750    
    In response to penn nation

Assume you are referring to the noxious hue of orange in the White House--on that one, I'll buy you a high ball Penn Nation.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1386

Reg: 02-14-06
Strategy for Next Weekend
02-26-17 02:03 PM - Post#223762    
    In response to TigerFan

Great idea Tiger Fan! Having combined men's and women sports teams is indeed the wave of the future. However, at this time, basketball teams composed of an unequal number of males and females would violate Title VII and open up the Ivy League to myriad lawsuits. The only reasonable alternative, therefore, would be to play postseason games with an even number of players of both sexes, which would require some rule changes. Also, there is the further complication of ensuring transgender rights in today's politically charged climate.

Edited by Columbia 37P6 on 02-26-17 02:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 871

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Strategy for Next Weekend
02-26-17 02:21 PM - Post#223764    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

I will accept your suggestion that teams play with an even number of players a friendly amendment to my suggestion. Didn't the Big East try an experiment with 6 player fouls before ejection for a brief period in the 80s? This might just be crazy enough to work sports fans!

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Strategy for Next Weekend
02-27-17 03:20 PM - Post#223889    
    In response to Columbia Alum

  • Columbia Alum Said:
If penn beat Dartmouth at home, which they certainly will.



Maybe you missed it, but Dartmouth won the first match in Hanover.

While Penn should be expected to win, they're hardly a lock for it.

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1786

Reg: 03-02-08
02-27-17 03:31 PM - Post#223893    
    In response to Go Green

Dartmouth' biggest problem against Penn will be the notorious home cooking at the Palestra.


 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
02-27-17 03:34 PM - Post#223894    
    In response to Chet Forte

  • Chet Forte Said:
Dartmouth' biggest problem against Penn will be the notorious home cooking at the Palestra.



If it's anything like Columbia last Saturday Penn should win going away.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 15636

Reg: 11-21-04
02-27-17 04:00 PM - Post#223898    
    In response to PennFan10

Let's not go overboard. Yes, there were a few brutal calls (most notably the 3 shot foul), but Penn had its chance to win. The refs didn't decide it.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9175

Reg: 12-02-04
Strategy for Next Weekend
02-27-17 04:02 PM - Post#223899    
    In response to palestra38

They didn't decide it, but they made some very questionable foul calls on Rothschild in the first half that put him in the hole. One of them seemed like a clear cut tie up for a jump ball, too.

Meanwhile concurrently there were times where we were getting hacked and nothing was called. There was one point in the game where after such a play SD leaped from his seat and really laid into an official.

Edited by penn nation on 02-27-17 04:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1786

Reg: 03-02-08
02-27-17 05:24 PM - Post#223904    
    In response to penn nation

Rothschild could have been arrested for assault and battery. The number of fouls called was virtually identical. And the three shot foul was confirmed after the refs reviewed the video. In any event Smith only made 2 of the 3.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 15636

Reg: 11-21-04
Strategy for Next Weekend
02-27-17 05:49 PM - Post#223912    
    In response to Chet Forte

Wait a sec Chet--foul calls are not reviewable. They were checking to see if it were a 2 or 3 shot foul. But the foul call was outlandish---he launched himself into the defender, who was not moving, and pushed off.

Let's get the rules right before making the categorical statement that the foul was confirmed.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
02-27-17 06:42 PM - Post#223921    
    In response to palestra38

Look at the video on all 3 of Rothschild's foul calls. Not one of them was a good call. There were missed calls against Columbia as well. Defenders are allowed to jump vertically with hands in the air and not be called for a foul.

The Euro step for Petrasek's andone was ridiculous. Rothschild was set, outside the circle, for 3 steps and then Petrasek traveled.

Again, give us the Penn version of those refs this weekend and we sweep easily.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2889

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
02-27-17 07:14 PM - Post#223927    
    In response to PennFan10

I thought the refereeing was acceptable. Nothing really awful. They didn't decide the game, which is all you can ask.

It was funny how the refs at the Cornell-Penn game were calling the palming while the refs at the Columbia-Penn game should have called a couple they didn't - both on Columbia and Penn.

The positive to having a tournament was that both teams played at a high intensity level.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3254

Reg: 11-23-04
Strategy for Next Weekend
02-27-17 07:23 PM - Post#223929    
    In response to PennFan10

Ivy refs. are almost uniformly awful. Bad calls tend to be both ways, though the favored or home teams seem to generally get the worst of it, IMO. The Brown - Dartmouth game last weekend was among the worst I have seen, I think 32 fouls against Brown, 23 against Dartmouth, 55 in all. Neither team played differently from earlier games.

Now, if we are still talking Columbia strategy for the weekend, I suggest the Lions should start Faulds and bring Stefanini and Hanson in off the bench.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4127

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Strategy for Next Weekend
02-27-17 09:28 PM - Post#223943    
    In response to Old Bear

I never understand getting overly focused on the refs. They make good calls and bad calls. The calls are the calls. I've literally never walked away from a game thinking that the refs determined the outcome. Might be the youth basketball coach in me -- I never even question a call, because I never want the kids focused on anything other than the next play.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 961

Reg: 02-15-15
02-27-17 10:34 PM - Post#223959    
    In response to SomeGuy

For the record I don't think the refs decided the outcome of the game either, I just enjoy complaining about stuff.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3254

Reg: 11-23-04
02-28-17 05:12 PM - Post#224044    
    In response to PennFan10

I can think of one or two of the hundreds I have seen.


 
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