Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-03-17 07:56 PM - Post#224483
In response to joe nassau
Not sure I would have predicted prior to the game Amir Bell with the one-on-one clearout against Chris Lewis as the winning play.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2274
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-03-17 08:03 PM - Post#224485
In response to Chip Bayers
He seems to relish that role. Columbia doubled him.
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joe nassau
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Reg: 02-13-05
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03-03-17 08:07 PM - Post#224486
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Clutch plays by Bell and Stephens to seal it for PU.
Deja vu all over though as Harvard got hot from three PU got cold, Weisz was crap on offense and Mitch stood there like a statue?
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mmp629
Junior
Posts: 259
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-03-17 08:09 PM - Post#224487
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
I watched on ESPNU. Harvard...Tommy...Harvard...Tommy...Harvard
I know I'm a total homer, but jeez!
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-03-17 09:53 PM - Post#224563
In response to mmp629
Awesome game! (and I agree the announcers were tedious ...)
Princeton was 8-26 and Harvard was 13-28 from the arc, which would result in a loss most nights. But defense was the story yet again, forcing 18 TOs while giving up just 5, which yielded 15 more shots (despite getting out-rebounded 36-24).
Steven Cook looked like the POY tonight and was the best player on the court, although Seth Towns sure is a stud. Myles Stephens was a force, hitting 3 treys early on and playing with tenacity all game long including the huge OR on the Tigers' final possession. Miller/Gladson/Brennan had only 2 points and 3 rebounds but they held Lewis/Zena to just 8 and 10. Weisz missed everything including numerous makeable deep post moves and an ugly out of control drive, but still had 7 assists (and just 1 TO).
And Amir Bell! Wow! After watching the replay, he started his move at exactly the right time, Chris Lewis sharply chest-bumped him as he cut to the hoop (not called somehow) yet he remained in control and calmly scored the game-winner.
Bryce Aiken has the best rookie stats in the league but in the two games against Princeton he was not a factor and forced a lot of high-difficulty shots. Siyani Chambers, who always seems to make plays when Harvard needs them, was also quiet and had 4 TOs.
Princeton will probably have to beat this team one more time to realize the promise of this dream season, which will be a tough trifecta. But the formula of defensive intensity + 2-3 of the 5 studs stepping up + poise and a killer instinct when the game is on the line seems to keep producing wins.
Go Tigers and huge congrats and thanks for a very memorable Ivy campaign this year.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-03-17 11:18 PM - Post#224606
In response to Tiger69
Amaker and the Crimson played their hearts out - no surprise at all. The notion that Amaker was going to use an expanded roster for this game was nonsensical -- sounded like an excuse by Crimson fans if Harvard would lose the game. Henderson played it the same way -- all out to win. It was a statement game for Harvard that they could compete with the Tigers and they accomplished that goal. Even with the 3 pt shooting differential and Weisz missing a bunch of easy shots, the Tigers win the game because they protect the ball much better than Crimson freshmen. Several Harvard 3 pointers bounced around the rim several times before going in. Princeton should come out of this game with even more confidence as Harvard defense clearly has weaknesses unlike prior years.
Edosomwan??? Not sure, why Stephens was not guarding Towns in the 1st half but Mitch decided to take Chambers out of the game. Cook plays big time against athletic teams.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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03-03-17 11:42 PM - Post#224613
In response to mmp629
Let's be fair. It wasn't all Harvard. There was plenty of credit to Duke and UNC, too.
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mmp629
Junior
Posts: 259
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-03-17 11:53 PM - Post#224615
In response to sparman
 Yes, that's true too. Amaker is a dookie, right?
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-04-17 03:52 AM - Post#224643
In response to mmp629
The announcers were pretty bad about promoting the Duke-UNC game instead of covering what they were showing. And the fawning over Harvard, to the seeming exclusion of any backstory or discussion of Princeton, was annoying. I liked the Yale commentators better.
Early on, Princeton's double-teams were coming well after the ball had arrived to the post man, making it easy for him to get the ball out to the relay man for a perimeter pass to a wide-open shooter. Later, they went back to doubling during the flight of the ball, which made it a lot more effective, although Lewis (who played another terrific game against the Tigers) still managed some nice passes. Still, Princeton got their hands on a lot of passes and hurried the Harvard players into making some bad ones, leading to the big TO advantage for the game. Smart to blanket Chambers and make somebody else beat you. Unfortunately, the Crimson got a lot of good looks and knocked a ton of them down. Also it seemed to me that the level of physicality wasn't there for the Tigers, as they got beat to a lot of rebounds and loose balls, sometimes trying to bend over or reach while their opponents were diving for them. Luckily it didn't' come back to bite them.
Towns looked like the player I've feared he would be but wasn't in the previous games I watched. His shooting form is very smooth, and he even hit a couple of mid-range turnaround jumpers, I'm sure much to Mike James's chagrin. There's something almost stately about his game--even when he's moving quickly he doesn't look hurried. Aiken again looked like an overmatched, somewhat hotheaded freshman making dumb plays, and Harvard looked best when he was not handling the ball. The crowd's "airball" chant after he missed that early trey really seemed to bother him. I know his overall stats are great, but, wow, that long leash from Amaker is pretty long.
The ending play by Bell kind of seemed like a tiny bit of a reversal of the 2011 Brandon Knight-over-Kareem Maddox play in the NCAAs. Lewis played good defense there but Bell had better offense. Love his ability to drive.
Weisz made some amazing passes, including a bullet hook pass to Cannady that Devin inexplicably chose not to shoot off of. He had the right idea backing down the various Harvard runts who tried to guard him, but I think he only got one of his finishes to go down. Cannady looked like he was limping a bit after one play, but seemed to shake it off and at least managed to hit a couple of shots. Brennan played bigger minutes than usual and was pretty good though not shooting much, moving all over the court on defense and tipping some loose balls to advantage.
Cook was simply awesome. It was so much fun watching him put his whole repertoire on display--treys, backdoor cuts, drives for dunks, tip-in follows. And he played as well on D as anyone. Stephens had some tough luck with the officials and had some misses from in close but still made huge plays, scoring efficiently and ripping that key OR at the end to set up Bell's clincher.
You could tell that Princeton knew they were going to win. When Harvard came out in the second half and quickly erased their nine-point deficit, the body language of the Tigers and their play remained confident and poised. I think the winning streak and the experience of the key players has really cemented their sense of what they need to do and what they can do. That confidence may have led them to get outhustled at times tonight, but it served them well down the stretch.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-04-17 08:35 AM - Post#224650
In response to SRP
Congratulations to the seniors and the entire team in winning the IL Championship outright. No matter what happens at the silly tournament next weekend, these guys will always look at the banner hanging in Jadwin in down the road when they return to Princeton.
Coach H deserves much credit for turning around the team's fortunes after the rocky start. As he said last night, the commitment to defense turned the tide. The other characteristic that makes the team so special is not only that they share the ball but how effectively they do it with Weisz as the General. A lot of fond memories watching Tiger basketball over the years but this team was special. A perfect ending to their Jadwin career would be a 14-0 season but Dartmouth will be playing with great intensity.
Based on current projections, Team Rankings have the Tigers as having a 50% chance to win the IL Tournament with Harvard at 22% and Yale at 15%. Anything can and will happen in one game on one night but tonight is the night to celebrate and honor the seniors.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1346
Reg: 12-08-04
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Harvard
03-04-17 09:34 AM - Post#224661
In response to bradley
Co-sign.
Is is true the League recognizes the regular season winner as champion? The ACC calls their tournament winner the league champion.
Beating Harvard 3 times will not be easy, if it comes to that, but a greater travesty would be allowing a team with a losing record to represent the League in the NCAA (this directed not specifically at Penn, who I think would not have an overall losing record if they win the tourney, but rather at the concept).
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-04-17 10:48 AM - Post#224673
In response to SRP
SRP said:
You could tell that Princeton knew they were going to win. When Harvard came out in the second half and quickly erased their nine-point deficit, the body language of the Tigers and their play remained confident and poised.
That was a thrilling win last night but I too felt a quiet confidence that the Tigers were going to win that I frankly can't ever remember feeling watching a close Princeton game.
There is a poise about this team that I don't think we've seen since the '98 dream season. After the tough OOC losses that resulted from difficulties at the end of games, these Tigers now play some of their best ball in the last few minutes.
Harvard is really good and will get better and better over the next few years. Towns was unstoppable for stretches last night and Lewis is a beast. Our length at guard (and the lusty harassment by our fans) gave Aiken fits, however. He is extremely quick but plays very small.
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Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts: 411
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-04-17 11:51 AM - Post#224684
In response to TigerFan
SRP and TF, you really nailed it: this year's team projects great resolve and focus and does not seem to get rattled easily. Weisz is indeed the General and the team seems to defer to his leadership. But it is not just Weisz; Cook plays with great energy and swagger, Stephens and Cannady know when to assert themselves, and even Alec Brennan, who often looked lost during his first two years, is now taking his shots without hesitation and becoming a presence on the defensive end.
For me, Amir Bell has been a revelation and is perhaps the unsung hero of this year's championship run. His skills have been apparent since his freshman year but they never seemed completely integrated into Princeton's system. But he has emerged as a major threat coming off the bench, leading the team in FG% and 3FG% and second only to Weisz in assists for league games. I don't know whether his isolation on the final possession was a pre-planned endgame strategy or a seizing of the moment, but it certainly appeared to be a situation the team had already prepared for, and he was very ready for his moment in the spotlight.
This year's team is one I will remember for a long time because of their chemistry and the skill level and selflessness of their starters + Bell, with Brennan and Gladson also playing important supporting roles. They are not a dominant team that crushes their opponents like the '98 team, but that may also be because the level of competition is now higher. In any case, I like their chances in the Crapshoot at the Palestra given their proven ability to play together, stick with their principles and rise to the occasion.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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Re: Harvard
03-04-17 12:04 PM - Post#224686
In response to sparman
It is true that the regular season winner of the Ivy League is deemed the Ivy League Champion. To the IL committee's credit, they got something right.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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03-04-17 12:24 PM - Post#224689
In response to bradley
Congratulations to Princeton for winning the League. Very much deserved, especially after losing two all-Ivy caliber players.
Well coached game last night. I never thought I'd see Harvard shoot nearly 50% from deep at Jadwin. Princeton's D' causing turnovers was the difference. No question in my mind that Henderson and the team strategized to take advantage of whomever Lewis was guarding and maneuvered so that a center was guarding a PG 35 feet from the basket with the lane cleared out. Baker wanted to help out but that would have left Weisz open for 3 from the corner. Well played Princeton.
Hope to see you again in Philly Sunday.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Harvard
03-04-17 12:31 PM - Post#224691
In response to bradley
It is true that the regular season winner of the Ivy League is deemed the Ivy League Champion. To the IL committee's credit, they got something right.
They got most of it right, you just don't like it.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Harvard
03-04-17 12:37 PM - Post#224693
In response to bradley
Good comments all. The Tigers proved themselves the worthy Champion last night. Nothing, not even an upset tonight or next weekend can change that. Such outcomes would be greater setbacks to the IL than to this great team. One can only hope that these guys complete their extraordinary run to the NCAA.
As to Harvard, they are a great team with a possibly great future. But, if they somehow bounce back and become the IL bid without a title, the NCAA and the IL will be the biggest losers. And, harvard will not get the respect that they would have received had they won last night when it most counted.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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03-04-17 01:21 PM - Post#224707
In response to Tiger69
Someone commented that ESPNU commentators talked more about 10-3 Harvard last night than they did 13-0 Princeton. Seemingly ignored the national rankings as well. I don't think Harvard will be disrespected. Sort of like Notre Dame football, Harvard may get more national recognition than it might otherwise deserve, possibly justified due to past NCAA performances, Amaker's liberal use of 'touted' freshmen and Harvard's 17-4 record after a 1-4 start (losing in the final seconds in 3 of the games with the 4th at Vermont).
On another point, League can't appreciate the stretch run performances of the leading 4th seed candidates. Competition is between a team that started 0-6, a team that has lost 7 of 8, and a team that lost its first 9 games and was projected by some sources as possibly going winless the entire season. Inauspicious debut for the concept of inclusion. Regardless, 4th seed will have a losing league record.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Harvard
03-04-17 01:37 PM - Post#224712
In response to Tiger69
As to Harvard, they are a great team with a possibly great future. But, if they somehow bounce back and become the IL bid without a title, the NCAA and the IL will be the biggest losers. And, harvard will not get the respect that they would have received had they won last night when it most counted.
Why? It sure looks like to me that if either Princeton or Harvard gets to the NCAA, the Ivy League reputation will be just fine. Either one of these teams (and probably both) would represent well in a 64 team field.
Everyone is so worried about the "14 game tournament"...that ship has sailed. A majority of the outcomes of a 4 team tournament has a high quality IL team representing the league in the NCAA's. This year either P or H would be a great rep and I am no so sure Yale wouldn't be just fine as well.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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03-04-17 01:59 PM - Post#224719
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Amaker did the best job of any IL coach, not surprising, as to how to attack the Tiger help defense by quickly kicking the ball out of the post with Lewis. It is true that the Crimson shooters were somewhat delirious in hitting 3 pointers as there were not many uncontested shots in many instances. It is certainly possible that Harvard hits their 3 pt shots again next weekend or the Tigers go stone cold and they pull off an upset.
If Harvard wins next weekend, Crimson will probably be a #14 seed or possibly #15. If Princeton wins #13 seed, #12 possible but unlikely due to the 50 rpi rank differential between the two teams. Historically, big difference as to win/lost results with 2 seed deferential. Crimson should be competitive if they do not experience a freshmen "freeze up".
Still not counting out Yale with Jones at the helm and their toughness.
I have a lot of respect for Amaker, Chambers and the Crimson program. They are tough.
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