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Username Post: IL Tourney future        (Topic#20046)
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 871

Reg: 11-21-04
03-03-17 11:54 PM - Post#224616    
    In response to bradley

Anyone think that either of the contestants for the men's #4 seed deserves to be in post season?

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 960

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-17 01:55 AM - Post#224636    
    In response to TigerFan

I do.

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1967

Reg: 11-23-04
03-04-17 02:08 AM - Post#224639    
    In response to TigerFan

Possibly Dartmouth, if they are still in contention and if they upset Princeton tomorrow. No one else, though.

 
Charlie Fog 
Junior
Posts: 291

Age: 48
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
03-04-17 09:11 AM - Post#224657    
    In response to Tiger69

No

 
Bryan 
Sophomore
Posts: 104

Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-17 09:35 AM - Post#224662    
    In response to TigerFan

The coaches and schools set up the rules before the season started. If the #4 seed wins the IL tournament they deserve to play in the NCAA tournament.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 695

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: IL Tourney future
03-04-17 09:47 AM - Post#224664    
    In response to bradley

She's just dizzy from too many losses to junior high zone defenses.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 254

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-04-17 01:11 PM - Post#224705    
    In response to TigerFan

  • TigerFan Said:
Anyone think that either of the contestants for the men's #4 seed deserves to be in post season?



They deserve every bit as much as Holy Cross did last year.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 802

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-04-17 01:25 PM - Post#224708    
    In response to Go Green

Yes, and Holy Cross became the poster child for disasterous one-bid tournament outcomes. Great argument for those that want to restrict mid-major participation.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 254

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-04-17 01:50 PM - Post#224714    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Yes, and Holy Cross became the poster child for disasterous one-bid tournament outcomes.



They won their NCAA game and brought in significant cash to the PL.

I'd love to have me some of those disastrous results.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 802

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-04-17 01:57 PM - Post#224718    
    In response to Go Green

On the other hand, I believe that Holy Cross qualifying more likely undercut the respect for the quality of basketball at the top of the PL. Nationally, people remember that at 14-20 Holy Cross was an entertaining outlier, not that Bucknell (14-4) and Lehigh (13-5) battled for the regular season title.

For instance, if Dartmouth can win the Ivy Tournament and enter the NCAA's at 10-19, then the likely conclusion will be that Princeton, Harvard and Yale must not have been that good. That's a risk associated with the tournament. Dartmouth (and probably Penn or Columbia) are less likely to be celebrated outside Ivy fans as opposed to the league being minimized.





 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 470

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-04-17 02:10 PM - Post#224721    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Exactly. Think of the outside world reaction to the 4th seed losing by 30+ points this year vs. what Yale accomplished last year. My non-IL friends still talk about Makai Mason, Sears and Sherrod. It enhanced the reputation of the league. Even though the odds of the 4th seed winning are small, less than 15% by the experts, it can still happen and the league's reputation will suffer if they get trounced --- "same old Ivy League -- you guys suck.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 960

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-17 03:36 PM - Post#224731    
    In response to bradley

It's a ridiculous argument in my opinion. They aren't taking away the automatic bid so who cares if Dartmouth makes it and gets trounced by Gonzaga by 40? Next year Harvard will make it to the sweet 16 and flip the tables. Short term reputational fear is not a way to make long term strategic decisions. The IL tournament will strengthen this league top to bottom over time.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3058

Reg: 02-04-06
03-04-17 03:42 PM - Post#224733    
    In response to PennFan10

Strengthening by weakening. War is peace.

 
whitakk 
Sophomore
Posts: 144

Age: 26
Reg: 11-11-14
03-04-17 04:10 PM - Post#224740    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
On the other hand, I believe that Holy Cross qualifying more likely undercut the respect for the quality of basketball at the top of the PL. Nationally, people remember that at 14-20 Holy Cross was an entertaining outlier, not that Bucknell (14-4) and Lehigh (13-5) battled for the regular season title.

For instance, if Dartmouth can win the Ivy Tournament and enter the NCAA's at 10-19, then the likely conclusion will be that Princeton, Harvard and Yale must not have been that good. That's a risk associated with the tournament. Dartmouth (and probably Penn or Columbia) are less likely to be celebrated outside Ivy fans as opposed to the league being minimized.



The thing about this argument is that Lehigh and Bucknell actually weren't all that good last year. The entire Patriot League was a mess in the past two seasons (seems to have rebounded this year), which is a big part of the reason teams like Lafayette and Holy Cross were able to win the tournament.

That's not to say Princeton couldn't lose to Dartmouth or whoever -- it's a real risk of the tournament setup. But it's less likely, because Princeton is way better than those PL leaders were.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4595

Loc: Jersey City, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-17 04:30 PM - Post#224741    
    In response to whitakk

C'mon Kevin, facts have no place in this argument.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 470

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-04-17 04:48 PM - Post#224745    
    In response to whitakk

I agree that it is less likely that Princeton would lose than Lehigh or Bucknell to Holy Cross last year. If it did happen, the loss would be more damaging to the IL vs. Patriot League reputation for exactly the reasons that you have stated if the number #4 seed wins.

The most recent odds to win the IL Tournament are: Princeton 50%, Harvard 22%, Yale 17%, whomever 11%.


 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 960

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-17 04:53 PM - Post#224746    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
I agree that it is less likely that Princeton would lose than Lehigh or Bucknell to Holy Cross last year. If it did happen, the loss would be more damaging to the IL vs. Patriot League reputation for exactly the reasons that you have stated if the number #4 seed wins.

The most recent odds to win the IL Tournament are: Princeton 50%, Harvard 22%, Yale 17%, whomever 11%.




This implies the IL has some lofty reputation that could be damaged. That's a fallacy. No one in the NCAA expects anything from an Ivy League team so you can't have much of a reputation than none. People think that Baylor sucked last year and Cincinnati and New Mexico before that. Until we are consistently beating people in the first couple rounds our reputation in the NCAA is secure.


 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 871

Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-17 06:06 PM - Post#224754    
    In response to PennFan10

PennFan, you sound like a guy whose team hasn't been to the post season in a while. Sad.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3058

Reg: 02-04-06
03-04-17 07:23 PM - Post#224762    
    In response to TigerFan

Carmody of HC was completely sincere in my opinion when, after winning the PL tournament, he stated at the press conference that the situation was unjust and that Lehigh deserved the bid. It was not institutionally possible for him to do anything about it, but the idiocy of the situation was apparent to him. And I say that even though I rooted for HC through their run and the eventual blowout loss to Oregon.

 
PennFan10 
Masters Student
Posts: 960

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-17 08:09 PM - Post#224784    
    In response to TigerFan

  • TigerFan Said:
PennFan, you sound like a guy whose team hasn't been to the post season in a while. Sad.



And you sound like a guy whose team is going to the NIT, Glad.


 
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