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Username Post: The P's #2        (Topic#20050)
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-02-17 04:51 PM - Post#224333    

Not sure what lineups or playing time distributions will be. Going to Princeton, not sure about Penn.

Most interested in seeing how Harvard coaches have worked with players since first games. Most notably, Chris had trouble with Princeton's aggressive double teaming (5 TO's) and Bryce was played hard at the 3 point line and ended up committing to ill fated reckless drives (3 TO's, 3-13 shooting). Zena (10 min) and Bryce (23 min) were each in foul trouble.

Don't expect either coach will play his hand a week before it matters. Two win streaks on the line. 5pm START! Princeton -7.5.

Most important stat first time around: Harvard with 17 TO's and Princeton with 10.

 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 233

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-03-17 12:29 PM - Post#224421    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Seems at least a little helpful that when we return to Philly next weekend it will be our second game in a row in the Palestra.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-03-17 12:54 PM - Post#224431    
    In response to digamma

At least it's not the home cooked rims/lighting at Jadwin.

Best performance by a current Harvard player at the Palestra? Could be Corbin Miller's 17pts in 18 minutes as Harvard outduels Penn and Zach Rosen 56-50 on February 2, 2012.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1117

Reg: 02-15-15
03-03-17 01:10 PM - Post#224433    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

What about Wesley Saunders 22pts including the game winner to beat Yale in a 1 game playoff a couple years ago? That was pretty impressive.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-03-17 01:12 PM - Post#224434    
    In response to PennFan10

"Best performance by a CURRENT Harvard player at the Palestra?"

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1117

Reg: 02-15-15
03-03-17 01:19 PM - Post#224439    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Aaah. I see. My glasses need a prescription update.

I am glad Saunders is not a CURRENT Harvard player.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
03-03-17 01:30 PM - Post#224444    
    In response to PennFan10

It has become much more fun in the Amaker era to beat harvard. But, I have to remind myself that tonight it doesn't really matter for us. Oh yes, we will win the outright IL championship! But, that and a few bucks only gets us coffee at the Palestra.

 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 233

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-03-17 01:56 PM - Post#224448    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
What about Wesley Saunders 22pts including the game winner to beat Yale in a 1 game playoff a couple years ago? That was pretty impressive.



Wes was fantastic that day, but STEVE actually hit the game winner.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-03-17 02:20 PM - Post#224451    
    In response to digamma

My pre-season hope was that Towns would become the creative offensive force that Wes was. At this point, I believe that will happen. Also, Towns is a better 3 point shooter, FT shooter, and can be a tough rebounder. Wes was still a far superior defender.

I'm also noticing some of the 'fire' and competitiveness in Towns that will be needed. Not bad for a slim freshman.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-03-17 02:24 PM - Post#224452    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Oh, and Wes' best performance was against UNC in Jackonville. 26 pts vs UNC on 14 shots, 4 rbs, 5 assts, 2 steals.

Single handedly almost beat a top 10 squad.


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
03-03-17 06:48 PM - Post#224482    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Nice follow- up dunk by Townes to tie game after previously hurting himself on a showboat dunk. Both these teams are tough.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
03-03-17 07:11 PM - Post#224488    
    In response to Tiger69

Thriller. Could have gone either way like first game. Both these teams deserve NCAA bids over some mediocre team from a big conference.

I know. Some will say, What about OOC performance? Both theses teams, like Penn, are twice what they were before January.

And now the dumb fu#k tourney. If the Tigers somehow get upset, they better get a bid.

 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 233

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-04-17 06:41 AM - Post#224648    
    In response to Tiger69

Aside from Harvard's spurts of sloppiness with the basketball, that was as high a quality an Ivy League game as I can remember. Two really good teams, and I hope we get a third.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
The P's #2
03-04-17 11:52 AM - Post#224698    
    In response to digamma

Agreed. The first half might have been the highest level Ivy competition I have ever seen. And Princeton's 9 point intermission lead held up for about 90 seconds in the 2nd half.

Edited by Tiger69 on 03-04-17 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
H78 
PhD Student
Posts: 1416
H78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
The P's #2
03-04-17 08:39 PM - Post#224837    
    In response to Tiger69

Crazy ending. Congrats to Penn.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-04-17 11:13 PM - Post#224904    
    In response to H78

once Brodeur made the 3 the Palestra got loud and crazy tonight - and the Penn students were on break.

Yes - congrats to Penn.

Tough weekend for our Crimson. All 4 Ivy losses down to final shot!

Onwards to the tournament.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
The P's #2
03-05-17 08:41 AM - Post#224936    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Such is life.

You get more chances next week and, most of your most promising players are underclassmen.

 
H78 
PhD Student
Posts: 1416
H78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 01-06-11
03-05-17 07:45 PM - Post#225142    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I was watching the game from a laptop, with somewhat in-and-out reception. What were some of the keys to Harvard's 2nd half "collapse?" I see in the box score that Johnson and Baker went a collective 0-8, Harvard turned the ball over 7x vs. 4 for Penn, and the Quakers shot a blistering 57%, 56% from 3.

Execution? Coaching? Any thoughts?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-05-17 09:10 PM - Post#225168    
    In response to H78

Hi H78, looking forward to catching up next weekend.

Strange weekend. Two tough losses. Harvard played much better Friday, but still played well enough on Saturday. Harvard shot much better on Friday as well. Still, both Princeton and Penn played tough and won the games.

Up until Brodeur's 3 point shot, Harvard had kept Brodeur from scoring and Penn's offense was very much limited to Howard and occasionally Betley. After that shot, Penn woke up the crowd and pushed the pace. Goodman made a couple of good plays against Siyani and Brodeur grabbed some rebounds and putbacks. The chess game between the coaches also shifted. Whereas Amaker wanted Zena guarding Brodeur, Donahue tried to react with Rothschild so that Brodeur could match up against Lewis. Eventually, Donahue played the two together but Amaker refused to play Zena and Chris at the same time.

Possibly the most meaningful circumstance was that Zena got in foul trouble. Sitting very near the court, I saw the calls as very much ticky tack, but it led him to be a bit less aggressive. Amaker also tried to rest Siyani and Bryce continued his struggles. The two of them only played together for about 20 minutes.

On the weekend, Harvard seemed very content to shoot from the outside. Unlike the game at Cambridge, Harvard either did not or could not run much at Penn. Harvard's transition game is its advantage. For the first time in a while though, Harvard did use Zena effectively, however, it had issues on the Boards. I'd like to see more aggressive rebounding, especially on the offensive boards. No reason Penn should outrebound the Crimson.




 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 508

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-07-17 09:56 AM - Post#225379    
    In response to H78

Harvard frosh looked like they experienced "tired legs and possibly minds" Saturday night against Penn especially Towns after his brilliant performance Friday night. It could be that shooters simply had off nights. It could be that the Ivy back to back weekends have some effect on the younger guys as the season wears on as they simply have not experienced this type of schedule.

The other challenge for Amaker is getting the right guys on the court regarding match ups. Chambers and Aikens on the court together creates some real size mismatches if the opposing coach is smart enough to exploit. Chambers and Johnson and possibly Aikens and Johnson create some potential open 3 pt shots.

Final question might be how the freshmen react to a pressured environment this weekend. I am sure that the frosh have plenty of experience in facing high pressure situations in High School/AAU ball but this is different. It may be Yale's main hope.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
The P's #2
03-07-17 11:19 AM - Post#225392    
    In response to bradley

Interesting observations. Remember that Chambers, Aiken and especially Towns got knocked around Friday at Princeton. Towns fell hard after a dunk and Chambers appeared to hurt his hand. Both had to leave the game temporarily. Aikens ended up with a cut early on Saturday and then emerged limping from a fall into the Harvard bench later that game.

Yale relies on key freshmen as well, and bigs (Downey and Reynolds) who play 30+ minutes. Lewis and especially Zena appear to be well rested, each averaging under 20 minutes/game.

Chambers is shooting better than he has in years, and Towns put together a string of 5 good scoring games until Penn. Aiken is simply hit or miss. Wonder about Johnson and maybe even Miller for 3's.

Also of note, Weisner Perez had been getting playing time of late but wasn't dressed this past weekend.

Yale has to be focusing on Aiken, who scored 49 points in two games. Could mean trouble for Harvard if Bryce tries to do it all by himself. On the other hand, if he can move the ball and drive and dish, others could have very big afternoons. After watching Bryce this past weekend, Yale could decide to let Bryce get his points, knowing that his high variability could end up unraveling Harvard.



Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-07-17 11:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 508

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: The P's #2
03-07-17 11:56 AM - Post#225400    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

It is true that Towns took a horrific fall Friday night plus Chambers and Aikens getting bumped -- did not help on Saturday night for sure.

Copeland had success scoring against the smaller Crimson guards as he has a height advantage plus he has his "shake and bake moves" but he can score against almost anyone. Totally perplexing that Dallier does not take one of the small guards by the basket but he apparently has no inside game. Weisz could take Aikens down deep and Aikens fought like hell but Weisz missed so many easy shots.

If I was Jones, I would have Dallier practice a lot standing by the basket this week but it probably will not happen as you can not learn the skill in a week. Yale does play taller and tougher than most on the boards but their defense is not what it once was. I am sure that they will play tough like Penn will against Princeton.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
03-07-17 12:07 PM - Post#225403    
    In response to bradley

The Harvard freshmen need a little more grooming -- perhaps best at the NIT, where they can play any of a number of good, solid teams who were either REALLY mediocre power conference teams or strong mid majors who got screwed by the NCAA.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-07-17 12:59 PM - Post#225421    
    In response to Tiger69

Mike James seems to think Harvard wouldn't get an NIT Bid. Assuming the spots go to Nos. 69-102, Crimson are on the bubble.

Wonder if Harvard would do the CIT? Might not see it as worthwhile. Long season for young squad and only 3 seniors.





 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
03-07-17 01:45 PM - Post#225428    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The NCAA/NIT seems to use ratings when it benefits the power conferences, and "judgment" in favor of the power confs when the ratings support mid majors. In the event that Harvard has, and takes advantage of, a third match with Princeton, one would hope that the Ivies would get two bids this year. But, there are very few who believe that that would happen. How many of us who have followed the latter half of the season closely still don't think that Princeton is among, say the top 50 teams nationally? But, the bid that it arguably should get for the quality of its play and league record will go to some 6 th or 7 th place team in the Big10(?) or ACC.

Well, at my age I know that nature is indifferent to such small concerns. But, there is lots of $ involved, something that even bball fans understand.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4836

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-17 02:01 PM - Post#225429    
    In response to Tiger69

Harvard has ZERO chance at the NIT.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2073

Reg: 11-23-04
The P's #2
03-07-17 02:52 PM - Post#225432    
    In response to mrjames

Really just a crack -- it seems pretty clear that the NIT is a consolation tournament to soothe the guilt of the NCAA for excluding so many good mid-majors in favor of the good ole boys in the big conferences. Some poor coach there (making an obscene salary) might just lose his job if he doesn't land a bid every year. The system is so annoying and corrupt that the Ivies should seriously consider strategies for pulling out and forming a more relevant and fair post season tournament with other mid-majors. The Ivy League formed in the early fifties because of the general belief of its members that athletics were getting out of hand (even before the entry of huge revenues from TV, etc.). The priorities of the NCAA seem to be getting out of hand now. If it does not want us or share our values, maybe it is time to split.

Edited by Tiger69 on 03-07-17 02:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4836

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-17 03:46 PM - Post#225445    
    In response to Tiger69

To be fair, because I rip on the selection committee A LOT, Harvard doesn't deserve an NIT bid. If it hadn't choked away November, it would probably be deserving, but it would have likely only been in the discussion if there were literally ZERO auto bids.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3139

Reg: 02-04-06
03-07-17 06:20 PM - Post#225468    
    In response to mrjames

KenPom has the Tigers at 64 today, so by that metric they too would only get in as an at-large to the NCAAs if there were no auto-bids at all. (They were at 61 yesterday, so those small swings shouldn't be taken too seriously.)

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3139

Reg: 02-04-06
03-07-17 06:22 PM - Post#225469    
    In response to SRP

BTW, a propos of our earlier exchange about Wichita State, I saw Jerry Palm on CBSSN insisting that an at-large for them would never happen given their paucity of quality wins, despite being ranked 10th on KenPom.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4836

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-17 07:01 PM - Post#225473    
    In response to SRP

Princeton would be in without auto bids existing, yes.

 
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