TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
03-05-17 05:51 PM - Post#225113
In response to PennFan10
Baker never covered Jackson, he stayed home the whole time. And if he did try to cover Jackson then Betley or AJ would have had a clear path to the rim. I don't think Baker had a good choice to make at that point.
Jackson was absolutely right to take that shot, whether or not that was the play. He was open. It took huevos on his part but as we were discussing on another thread that's the reason why he's playing the minutes he is.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-05-17 08:16 PM - Post#225132
In response to TheLine
I'm not sure what you mean by never covered him. He's essentially playing the middle while the ball is on one side and his man is in the opposite corner. With Baker's length, he presumes he can run out if a skip pass goes out there and either cut off the shot or make it difficult. Yes, when Goodman dribbles toward the middle and Jackson moves from baseline to wing, you want to cover him at that point. But the play works because The movement of Goodman, Betley, and AJ forces Baker to wait where he is for a moment. Ultimately, obviously you want to cover everyone, but if one guy is going to be open, Donahue 5 feet behind the 3 line is better than the other possibilities. And Baker's length forces him back that far. He just made the shot. I don't really see an issue with the defense there.
|
IvyBballFan
Masters Student
Posts: 479
Age: 77
Loc: Central Florida
Reg: 11-19-09
|
03-05-17 08:39 PM - Post#225140
In response to tguru
Is it correct that the winner of the 2nd game will get off the court around 6pm Saturday evening and have to play again at noon the next day? I can't believe an athlete(s) constructed that schedule.
Yes and it's even worse than you think. Next weekend is Daylight Savings Time weekend. The "spring forward" occurs at 2AM Sunday.
|
dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
|
Re: Harvard II and other things
03-05-17 08:52 PM - Post#225144
In response to penn nation
Yes, that is the schedule. Not much better for the 2-3 seeds on the women's side.
Actually, it's much worse on the women's side. Penn and Brown play at 11 am on Saturday; barring OT, that should be over by about 1 pm. Princeton and Harvard don't play until 6:30 pm; even without OT, that won't be over until 8:30 pm. The final is 4 pm Sunday, so that means that after subtracting one hour for DST (!), the Penn-Brown winner can expect a 26-hour turnover, whereas the Princeton-Harvard winner only gets 16.5 hours. I think it's a very good thing that our heroines got the #1 seed, even if I would rather have played someone besides Brown.
For the men, I guess they need to play early enough so that the NCAA committee can lock that team in for its seeding given all of the other permutations it has to make that weekend. Would imagine a fair degree of variance in the Ivy seed depending on who it is.
Either that, and/or maybe it was the only time slot available on Sunday to ensure any kind of ESPN coverage.
Can't speak to the time slot, but they definitely want to give the committee some time to consider them. There was one year a while back when either the MEAC or SWAC actually had their tournament final after the selection show, which meant that they got stuck with a 16 seed, even though the better team probably could have been higher than that, because the committee didn't know who was going to win. Needless to say, that never happened again.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
03-05-17 09:02 PM - Post#225147
In response to SomeGuy
SomeGuy, Baker was below the hoop while Jackson was in the corner 20 feet away. That's wide open.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-05-17 10:16 PM - Post#225170
In response to TheLine
Yes, but that's a major skip pass to get to him from the opposite wing where Goodman was (the kind of pass that, if you made it, would get you a long wait on the bench under Dunphy). So a defender shouldn't be any further then the edge of the paint there, and the middle is reasonable for a player of Baker's length. You don't have to be anywhere near Donahue unless Goodman (or the ball) moves. So at that stage, I think you want him there under the basket to help.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
03-05-17 10:50 PM - Post#225178
In response to SomeGuy
Another undesirable side-effect of the idee fixe about having the men and women play in the same event plus poor planning about DST. The amateur ideal in action again.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
03-06-17 09:06 AM - Post#225208
In response to SomeGuy
It wasn't a skip pass.
By the time Goodman passed to Donahue, Dev was at the top of the key and Jackson had moved towards him. Baker was stuck in no man's land because he had to guard against Ryan and AJ going to the hoop. Bassey couldn't help out because he was pinned to Matt.
The Penn players did execute well. And either that was a well drawn up play or Jackson improvised well when he noticed he was going to get an open look. And sure, better to be beat by a 25 foot shot by a player who hadn't scored in the game than by an AJ layup. But Jackson was wide open.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-06-17 09:30 AM - Post#225213
In response to TheLine
It was a designed play with several options. The key being that Howard was a decoy--and Betley took 2 more men out of the play. Had someone covered Jackson, Betley was the likely target of a pass. But yes, Jackson was wide open with a great, feet set look. It's the kind of play we had forgotten a Penn team could run, at least since Miller sketched out such plays and blamed the players when they didn't work.
|
yoyo
Senior
Posts: 363
Reg: 03-25-09
|
03-06-17 02:06 PM - Post#225247
In response to palestra38
Im glad not fouling on Harvard's last possession didn't come back to bite Penn.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-06-17 02:09 PM - Post#225248
In response to yoyo
Fouling is stupid. If you foul, they can hit the first, miss the second, get the rebound and win the game. If you don't foul, the worst that happens is a tie. You only foul there if you are not over the limit. But I'll take my chances with a desperation 3 over coverage than let them get one back for free and a chance to win the game.
|
section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-06-17 02:46 PM - Post#225253
In response to palestra38
I candidly forget. Did we have a foul to give? Harvard did not shoot a 1& 1 in the second half. I can't remember if we were at 5 or 6 fouls at the end possession.
|
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-06-17 02:51 PM - Post#225256
In response to section110
We were at 6, so would have been 1-and-1.
|
13otto
Masters Student
Posts: 779
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-06-17 02:53 PM - Post#225258
In response to section110
We absolutely were over the limit. Harvard converted a one-and-one to tie the game when Darnell fouled out.
|
section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-06-17 04:02 PM - Post#225269
In response to Chip Bayers
OK thanks, then I'm with P38 for once. Let them heave up the contested prayer.
|
section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-06-17 04:04 PM - Post#225271
In response to 13otto
I had thought that was a shooting foul?
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1896
Reg: 11-29-04
|
03-06-17 06:17 PM - Post#225301
In response to section110
I'm a bit surprised that it was part of the play's design for Donahue to put up a 25 foot shoot. Especially with his season percentages. Couldn't they come up with something that would give of a closer shot in the hands of a higher percentage shooter? But it went in and now JD is a definite hero.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
|
03-06-17 06:27 PM - Post#225305
In response to Penndemonium
Harvard actually had a better 3 pt shot at the end, at least in terms of distance from the arc, with much less time to set it up--that was a heck of a long cross-court pass.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-06-17 06:30 PM - Post#225306
In response to penn nation
No, it wasn't even close. Yes, it was a good push upcourt, but it was a rushed shot with a hand in the face. Donahue had both feet set and a guy who was much too far away to affect the shot.
But if the question is whether to foul, I would never never foul in that situation. After all, even Sec 110 is willing to agree with me on this for once!
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
03-06-17 07:46 PM - Post#225313
In response to Penndemonium
I'm guessing the primary option was Betley (either above Brodeur's pick or to the hoop) and the secondary was Brodeur (roll to the hoop after Betley's move). But Harvard had those options covered.
It's difficult for a defense to cover everything. Sometimes you take what the other team gives you.
|
