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Username Post: Yale        (Topic#20114)
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 508

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-17-17 01:40 PM - Post#227484    
    In response to palestra38

The unfairness issue of having the tournament at the Palestra every year is real. If Robin and her merry men continue on with the notion of having an IL Tournament, they are going to have rotate the tournament site within the IL, play at conference winner's home court or find a neutral site if they have any common sense at all -- questionable.

When they conduct a pre-season poll next year, Penn will probably be projected as the four seed, possibly third seed, so there is a possibility that the IL could be heading down a similar road as this year with the possible exception that Harvard or Yale might be the #1 seed.

A possible solution if the tournament is held at the Palestra every year is for the scoreboard to reflect a 3-0 or 4-0 lead for the opponent before the opening tip. A better solution is to can the tournament but that will not happen for at least several years.



 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-17-17 01:58 PM - Post#227488    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:


When they conduct a pre-season poll next year, Penn will probably be projected as the four seed, possibly third seed, so there is a possibility that the IL could be heading down a similar road as this year with the possible exception that Harvard or Yale might be the #1 seed.





Is there REALLY going to be that much sympathy for an Ivy regular season champion that can't beat #4 Penn at the Palestra?

I mean, bitching about Penn's HCA is not exactly the type of "Anyone! Anytime! Anyplace!" attitude that most winning programs want to project.



 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 508

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-17-17 02:53 PM - Post#227495    
    In response to Go Green

Confucius rhetorically replies:

"Is there really going to be that much sympathy for a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place team that can't win the regular season IL Championship in order to receive the automatic bid.

I mean, bitching about Amaker/Harvard, Yale and Princeton is not exactly the type of "Anyone! Anytime! Anyplace! attitude that most winning programs want to project"

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3289

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Yale
03-17-17 02:57 PM - Post#227498    
    In response to palestra38

I was assuming you were referring to the total attendance for all 6 games played. Does anyone know how many buts were in seats for each of the games? I was opining that 4 games at the home of the higher seed and 2 at a neutral site, would, cumulatively, draw more fans.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3289

Reg: 11-23-04
03-17-17 02:58 PM - Post#227499    
    In response to Go Green

It seems to me that the Penn Women may have benefited from 2 home games.

 
whitakk 
Sophomore
Posts: 150

Age: 26
Reg: 11-11-14
Re: Yale
03-17-17 09:34 PM - Post#227519    
    In response to Old Bear

Listed attendance was 6,209 for Saturday session; 3,833 for Sunday

My very rough estimates for crowds per game:

PENN-BRWN (W): 1750 (at end; much less at tip)
PRIN-PENN (M): 6000
HARV-YALE (M): 4000-4500 maybe?
PRIN-HARV (W): 800-1000?

PRIN-YALE (M): 3800
PENN-PRIN (W): 1000-1200?

Chime in if anything looks off

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 832

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-17-17 09:39 PM - Post#227520    
    In response to whitakk

Harvard-Yale estimate too high.
I'd estimate 3,000 to 3,500


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2074

Reg: 11-23-04
Yale
03-17-17 11:10 PM - Post#227525    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Frankly, I'm fine with the tournament at the Pennestra AS LONG AS THE REGULAR SEASON CHAMP GETS THE NCAA BID. Tournament winner gets NIT bid, or better (as Ivy improves), a SECOND NCAA bid.

Otherwise, we have set the table in future years for a Penn team to edge out a higher seed/better team for the NCAA bid. And wasn't MR James' argument (bogus IMHO) for a tourney that we should choose the strongest team at the end of the season to carry the Ivy in the NCAA? I hope that he has since realized the glitch in that argument If he hasn't, may his Cantabs lose the tourney to Penn when/if they win another regular season title.

Edited by Tiger69 on 03-17-17 11:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Yale
03-18-17 08:06 AM - Post#227531    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
Tournament winner gets NIT bid.



Again, why would the NIT agree to that?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1122

Reg: 02-15-15
03-18-17 09:49 AM - Post#227534    
    In response to Go Green

Because we would tell them they have to.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-18-17 11:22 AM - Post#227544    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
Because we would tell them they have to.



Just like Penn told the NCAA to go screw in 1966?

That worked out well, didn't it?

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2074

Reg: 11-23-04
03-18-17 01:04 PM - Post#227553    
    In response to Go Green

Well, for one, they would be taking the team that would otherwise get an NCAA bid. Frankly, I don't give a sh!t what the NIT does. If they pass up an obviously outstanding Ivy team (even though they routinely take one bid conference champs who drop in their tourneys), that is their loss, too.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-18-17 01:16 PM - Post#227554    
    In response to Tiger69


So just so I have this straight--

You want a tournament where the regular season champion either sits out or plays their scrubs because they have nothing to gain (as they are already locked in the NCAA), and the winner may or may not get an NIT bid.

I have to tell you--I think that’s a hard sell.


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2074

Reg: 11-23-04
03-18-17 01:30 PM - Post#227555    
    In response to Go Green

My focus is the NCAA bid. Any way you think you can improve the competition for what should be the consolation prize, fine. The season winner would have plenty of motivation, as well as pride, to perform well in the tourney as it might affect its seeding at the Dance. As the Ivies continue to strengthen, there should be additional pressure for a second bid -- especially if there is a tight race for the championship followed by an upset in the tourney by a close runner-up.

As I implied before, the NIT should be an afterthought. It is a CONSOLATION tournament to extend a team's season and perhaps sharpen it for the following season. For Ivies, some may wish to pass it up after say, a disappointing season or for personal concerns (ahh...they are busy students, too).

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 508

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-18-17 01:55 PM - Post#227556    
    In response to Tiger69

Two of the arguments for the IL Tournament winner getting an automatic bid that I have enjoyed the most are: 1. Harvard will receive a bid no matter what next year and/or subsequent years therefore the IL can send the IL #4 seed to the Big Dance if they win the IL Tournament and no one will really notice when they lose as Harvard will reach the round of 16. 2. The IL sucks so it does not matter which team that you send to the Big Dance.


 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-18-17 02:24 PM - Post#227559    
    In response to Tiger69

I do not share your optimism that the regular season winner would take a tournament seriously if that team already is locked into the NCAA. I also think it would be rather odd if a longshot “got hot” to win the Ivy tournament…. and didn’t receive a postseason bid anywhere.

Seems to me that having a half-assed tournament is the least-palatable of the options. If we're going to have a tournament, let's do it the right way.



 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 508

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-18-17 06:54 PM - Post#227579    
    In response to Go Green

The point is that some of us just think that the IL Tournament is foolish and does not support the overarching objective of the IL continuing on its upward trajectory.

Most of us accept that the tournament will exist for a number of years unless a "perfect storm" hits more than one time over the next few years. This year, Robin and her merry men dodged the first bullet.

Many of us also believe that the initial IL Tournament was a testament to amateur hour and hopefully, some lessons have been learned to improve the format, location, etc. but it is doubtful based on what we have seen so far.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3289

Reg: 11-23-04
03-18-17 07:33 PM - Post#227582    
    In response to bradley

Fans have to get over it. The Tourney exists because the players, the coaches and the ADs wanted it.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-18-17 10:10 PM - Post#227648    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:

Many of us also believe that the initial IL Tournament was a testament to amateur hour and hopefully, some lessons have been learned to improve the format, location, etc. but it is doubtful based on what we have seen so far.



Those of us who are content with the status quo keep waiting for people to come up with better alternatives that fit within the parameters of what the league wants to accomplish.

Until the league says that it’s fine with holding the men’s and women’s tournaments at separate venues, "opinions" along the lines of "the games should be played at the top-seeded school" are not helpful. Unless, of course, you’re talking about rotating between the venue of the men’s and women’s regular season champion....



 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1122

Reg: 02-15-15
03-19-17 10:02 AM - Post#227675    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
Two of the arguments for the IL Tournament winner getting an automatic bid that I have enjoyed the most are: 1. Harvard will receive a bid no matter what next year and/or subsequent years therefore the IL can send the IL #4 seed to the Big Dance if they win the IL Tournament and no one will really notice when they lose as Harvard will reach the round of 16. 2. The IL sucks so it does not matter which team that you send to the Big Dance.




I have not seen either of these arguments anywhere prior to your mention here. Can you show us where these "arguments" have occurred?

 
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