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Username Post: Yale        (Topic#20114)
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Yale
03-19-17 10:01 PM - Post#227762    
    In response to Go Green

That's not for me to decide. I just suspect that the votes will lineup against The Palestra hosting again. From there, if the league can't find a suitable venue within the polygon created by our footprint, they probably shouldn't be entrusted to put on a tournament. My presumption is they'll come through.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3065

Reg: 02-04-06
03-20-17 06:41 AM - Post#227768    
    In response to mrjames

Perhaps we should look at the convex hull rather than a polygon.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1CP G5LYol...

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Yale
03-20-17 06:45 AM - Post#227770    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
That's not for me to decide. I just suspect that the votes will lineup against The Palestra hosting again. From there, if the league can't find a suitable venue within the polygon created by our footprint, they probably shouldn't be entrusted to put on a tournament. My presumption is they'll come through.



IMHO, it seems a bit odd for anyone to vote against the Palestra if they don't have someplace better in mind already...

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4601

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-20-17 07:58 AM - Post#227773    
    In response to Go Green

There are plenty of reasons to vote against The Palestra other than liking a specific different venue more. It's not odd at all. You're thinking about the tournament like a fan and not like a competitive actor viewing things from an asset perspective.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-20-17 08:15 AM - Post#227775    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
There are plenty of reasons to vote against The Palestra other than liking a specific different venue more. It's not odd at all. You're thinking about the tournament like a fan and not like a competitive actor viewing things from an asset perspective.



I would hope that competitive actors think things through.

It would REALLY be odd to vote against the Palestra, begin the search for another venue, conclude that nothing else makes sense (wrong size for Ivy tourney, inconvenient location, too much $$$ to rent, not available Selection Sunday weekend, etc.), and return to the Palestra after all.

 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 130

Age: 36
Reg: 01-08-11
03-20-17 12:36 PM - Post#227784    
    In response to Go Green

Sounds like you really love the Palestra. I do too. We all love it.

But it's just flat out wrong to ask teams to put their entire season on the line and then give one of the teams an unearned home court advantage.

I'm confident that the league can find a suitable neutral court for either the entire tournament or for a championship day men's and women's double header.

If the league can't manage that, then as mrjames says, there just shouldn't be a tournament.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-20-17 12:46 PM - Post#227785    
    In response to westphillywarrior

  • westphillywarrior Said:


If the league can't manage that, then as mrjames says, there just shouldn't be a tournament.



Disagree with this. If the powers that be can't come up with a good neutral site, keep it at the Palestra.

The two top seeds *did* win and performed admirably in the NCAA. Junking the entire tournament just because Princeton didn't spank Penn as much as they should have is the worst possible result, IMHO.

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1984

Reg: 11-23-04
Yale
03-20-17 01:06 PM - Post#227786    
    In response to Go Green

GG. I don't follow your engagement in all this. You reject all the serious points made, not simply by Princeton fans, that are critical of the Palestra venue. As an apparent Dartmouth fan, you probably won't have any skin in this game anytime soon. And, you harp on a league dispute with the NCAA that affected Penn, the league champ that year, over half a century ago. Are you a Palestra troll or simply a mischievous fan with nothing better to do with your time? (I wonder that about myself as I type this! )

Edited by Tiger69 on 03-20-17 01:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 471

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-20-17 01:17 PM - Post#227787    
    In response to westphillywarrior

Your comments are spot on. Tournament should not be held at the Palestra even though it is truly a grand old place for exactly the reasons that you have stated.

An alternative is to hold it at the Barclays Center - Brooklyn. ACC will returning to North Carolina after next year's tournament. Mass transportation options exist for six of the eight teams. Certainly not centrally located for all teams, but less distant than Philadelphia. NYC is the media capital of the world etc.

Cost may be an issue but does the IL really want to make a major commitment to the tournament?? A challenge may be having enough fannies in the seats but it might give them the excuse to expand to eight teams.

The other option is to bag the tournament as the Ivies cannot agree on a location -- that will regrettably not happen.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Yale
03-20-17 01:28 PM - Post#227788    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
GG. I don't follow your engagement in all this. You reject all the serious points made, not simply by Princeton fans, that are critical of the Palestra venue.



No real mystery here.

People know that I've been a pro-tourney person for a long while.

Personally, I take the league at its word that it wants to hold the men's and women's tournament together. So that means having it in one location. (If the league reverses course on this and holds it at the higher seeded team's court, then fine).

Thus, the only "criticism" to having it at the Palestra that holds any currency with me is that a better and/or more appropriate venue exists.

Come up with such a place, great!

If not, let's have it at the Palestra next year again and the year after.

Really not sure what else needs to be cleared up here...

Edited by Go Green on 03-20-17 01:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
CrimsonWest 
Sophomore
Posts: 106

Reg: 10-17-11
03-20-17 02:26 PM - Post#227794    
    In response to SRP

Based on the Convex Hull drawing, it seems Springfield or Hartford fall somewhere in the middle.

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1984

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Yale
03-20-17 02:27 PM - Post#227795    
    In response to Go Green

So, we have the#%?£€ tournament Finals (m&w) Sunday afternoon at a neutral arena in the NYC area (plenty suggested). All prelims the previous Friday at home courts of higher seeds. Addressed issues:

-- Neutral court for finals at reasonably central location
-- M and W together in double header
-- Higher seeds get HC advantage in semis on Friday
-- Rest day before finals

The only open Q Is the tourney prize. I'm sticking with NCAA for League Champ; NIT (or, MAYBE, 2nd NCAA bid) to tourney winner.
If same team wins both, everyone else is on his/ her own.

WHAT's the problem with that, Robin (and ADs, players and fans of runners up)? This is a vast improvement on the mess created for the first tourney.


Edited by Tiger69 on 03-20-17 02:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Yale
03-20-17 03:05 PM - Post#227798    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:


WHAT's the problem with that, Robin (and ADs, players and fans of runners up)?




As you wish, my friend...

In no particular order for your format:

1) Tourney winner has no guaranteed post-season slot. The NIT would never agree to take a tournament winner without knowing who the winner is beforehand. The NCAA is structured to accommodate blowouts (there are two other games for ticketed fans to watch that should be more competitive than the 1 v. 16 games). The NIT is not. Tickets aren't going to sell if the game is not viewed as potentially competitive. Moreover, the NIT requires teams to have a .500 record or better.

And please don't respond that the Ivy can dictate terms to the NCAA/NIT. That's not the way it works...

2) Costs to rent the "neutral" venue.

3) Increased travel costs to teams fans to potentially make two trips instead of one. It's really a tall order to ask fans of the #3 & #4 seeds to be prepared to hightail it to NYC (or wherever) if they get the upset on Friday night.

4) Turns the "Ivy Showcase" into just one day rather than a weekend.

I'm sure others can come up with more.



Edited by Go Green on 03-20-17 03:06 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 229

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-27-11
03-20-17 03:16 PM - Post#227800    
    In response to Go Green

I'll just say I haven't been to Mohegan Sun since after the Brown game my senior year. We were staying outside of Providence at my roommate's house and his very observant mother questioned how he could have only lost $20 despite his claim that he lost "15 blackjack hands in a row."

As an aside, I note they have something called the Mohegan Sun Arena.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Yale
03-20-17 06:20 PM - Post#227824    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:

3) Increased travel costs to teams fans to potentially make two trips instead of one. It's really a tall order to ask fans of the #3 & #4 seeds to be prepared to hightail it to NYC (or wherever) if they get the upset on Friday night..





And this assumes that the Northeast doesn't get slammed by a blizzard on that travel Saturday.

 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 130

Age: 36
Reg: 01-08-11
Re: Yale
03-20-17 06:38 PM - Post#227825    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:
  • Go Green Said:

3) Increased travel costs to teams fans to potentially make two trips instead of one. It's really a tall order to ask fans of the #3 & #4 seeds to be prepared to hightail it to NYC (or wherever) if they get the upset on Friday night..





And this assumes that the Northeast doesn't get slammed by a blizzard on that travel Saturday.



Those seem like valid concerns. Maybe we can play those semi-final games on Wednesday evening.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3253

Reg: 11-23-04
03-20-17 07:18 PM - Post#227829    
    In response to westphillywarrior

Let's take the Tourney discussion over to the League Board, we can keep it going all summer.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 471

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-20-17 09:22 PM - Post#227837    
    In response to mrjames

I would be very surprised if the tournament returns to the Palestra. If I sat on the IL Tournament committee, I would have been sweating bullets with 12 seconds left at the end of the Penn/Princeton. If Penn won that game and then beat Yale, there would have been a hail of criticism coming down on the IL Committee especially if Penn got hammered as the 16th seed -- Ken Pomeroy follow up commentary, Mike & Mike commentary, ESPN personalities, etc. The League probably would have been harshly criticized for selecting the Palestra as well as some "experts" taking shots at the format. The optics are just bad let alone the right and wrong as to the Palestra site selection. The criticism would have been muted if somehow Penn played competitively against a #1 seed.

Committee will probably go for a neutral site. Why take the risk again? That assumes that they are not living in a cocoon. But then again, they took a knowing or unknowing risk the first time.



 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 258

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-20-17 09:47 PM - Post#227838    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
I would be very surprised if the tournament returns to the Palestra. If I sat on the IL Tournament committee, I would have been sweating bullets with 12 seconds left at the end of the Penn/Princeton. If Penn won that game and then beat Yale, there would have been a hail of criticism coming down on the IL Committee especially if Penn got hammered as the 16th seed -- Ken Pomeroy follow up commentary, Mike & Mike commentary, ESPN personalities, etc. The League probably would have been harshly criticized for selecting the Palestra as well as some "experts" taking shots at the format. The optics are just bad let alone the right and wrong as to the Palestra site selection. The criticism would have been muted if somehow Penn played competitively against a #1 seed.

Committee will probably go for a neutral site. Why take the risk again? That assumes that they are not living in a cocoon. But then again, they took a knowing or unknowing risk the first time.





Maybe you’re right. Or maybe you’re wrong. Upsets happen in conference tournaments every year and the world seems to go on just fine. Is there a reason why we shouldn't expect the same reaction here?

Also, had Penn pulled off the miracle, they would have gone to the First Four game. Just like Holy Cross last year.

And Holy Cross seemed to have fun.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/a rticle/20...




 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 471

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-20-17 11:18 PM - Post#227840    
    In response to Go Green

You are missing the point. If you were in Robin'shoes or a member on the IL Tournament committee, are you going to take the risk after what just occurred? I would not be the least bit surprised if she silently sang "Hallejuah" after the overtime as she and the committee dodged the bullet. As you may remember, Pomeroy urged the IL to move the game just prior to this year's Tournament on an emergency basis.

The Committee is in a very tough situation whether you want to believe it or not.

 
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