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Username Post: Georgetown        (Topic#20181)
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 234

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-23-17 01:46 PM - Post#228003    

Should we be worried?

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Georgetown
03-23-17 02:03 PM - Post#228012    
    In response to digamma

  • digamma Said:
Should we be worried?



Amaker is showing up on every list of potential replacements for JTIII.

I'd say "yes."


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
03-23-17 02:04 PM - Post#228013    
    In response to digamma

Depends on how much $ they throw at him. Good stepping stone to Dook?

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
03-23-17 02:09 PM - Post#228014    
    In response to Tiger69

Also, he's got a lot of fancy players who he might like to go with him.... Ugly business. H may have to go with one-and-dones with their next coach

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
03-23-17 02:13 PM - Post#228016    
    In response to Tiger69

Seriously, the fact that he's stuck it out this long and his wife has a reason to stay put bodes well for h. I was, frankly, surprised that he didn't take the first good offer after he got his first championship.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 511

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Georgetown
03-23-17 02:22 PM - Post#228018    
    In response to digamma

I do not think so unless he knows that he is not getting the Duke job when Coach K is done and Tommy wants a shot at a big time program.

Does not make sense considering last year's freshmen class. I think that he will stay put. He is good for the IL.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16412

Reg: 11-21-04
03-23-17 02:22 PM - Post#228019    
    In response to Tiger69

I think Georgetown will aim higher than Amaker, although that is a possibility.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3143

Reg: 02-04-06
03-23-17 04:15 PM - Post#228031    
    In response to palestra38

An Amaker hire would not appease the fans who wanted JTIII out. It would be seen as "more of the same." They want to get someone non-Ivy, non-academic, "big-time." But I don't know if the job is good enough to attract an already-successful major-school coach. They could try an up-and-coming assistant with recruiting chops from a big-time school that's slightly academically respectable. Is there a Notre Dame assistant who would be plausible?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16412

Reg: 11-21-04
03-23-17 04:39 PM - Post#228037    
    In response to SRP

As we saw with Harvard and the Amaker hire, if a school with substantial resources wants a guy, they will give him what he wants in terms of pay and support. If they get a big time guy, they will do what is necessary to make him successful.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3143

Reg: 02-04-06
03-23-17 05:08 PM - Post#228041    
    In response to palestra38

It may be a better job than I thought when I posted above. Their DOE-reported men's basketball budget is $11.3 million for 2015, not exactly chicken feed even in the expensive D.C. area.

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 891

Reg: 11-21-04
03-23-17 06:05 PM - Post#228043    
    In response to SRP

Generally I think its bad form to speculate about other schools' coaches but I'm going to break my own rule and offer two thoughts:

1) Siyani Chambers was a very special Harvard player and one who appeared to have a particularly close relationship with Tommy Amaker. With Chambers now graduating, maybe Amerker will jump for a new opportunity.

2) Amaker has done a hell of a recruiting job the last couple of years. If he wants to leave the program in great shape and if there is a deserving assistant at Harvard that Amaker has a strong relationship with and who he would feel comfortable handing the program off to (I don't know the program well enough to know if this is true or not), that may also make it the right time for him to move on.

 
Southbridge Street 
Freshman
Posts: 50

Age: 57
Reg: 03-18-11
03-23-17 06:24 PM - Post#228045    
    In response to TigerFan

Thompson made $3.2 million several years ago, based on IRS filings by the university.

If postings on fan boards are at all credible, those currently in favor as a successor are Smart (Uni of Texas), Crean (ex Indiana, Marquette), Marshall (Kansas State) with some opining that Patrick Ewing is also in the mix. The specter looming over all this is whether John Thompson Jr. will remain a presence on campus, which might favor Ewing.

Pronounced disinterest in Amaker.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3291

Reg: 11-23-04
03-23-17 06:54 PM - Post#228047    
    In response to Southbridge Street

Dan Hurley may also be in the mix.

 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 234

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-23-17 07:05 PM - Post#228049    
    In response to TigerFan

  • TigerFan Said:


1) Siyani Chambers was a very special Harvard player and one who appeared to have a particularly close relationship with Tommy Amaker. With Chambers now graduating, maybe Amerker will jump for a new opportunity.





This is my biggest concern about the whole thing. Timing seems a little different with Siyani leaving.

That said, it arguably is a little more of the same for Georgetown, so I could see them looking elsewhere.


 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2209
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
03-23-17 09:42 PM - Post#228054    
    In response to digamma

I'm not convinced Coach Amaker would be interested. Yes more money, but more pressure at a place that's been down for a few years and where fans expectations are probably too high (even for a historically great program).

Why do that when he is already well paid, at place where he could coach forever, when he is still recruiting like a machine?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-24-17 12:16 AM - Post#228058    
    In response to Mike Porter

Siyani was special.
Bryce is off to a great start.

Same goes for Towns (Wes), Lewis (Zena), and Bassey
(Okolie).

If Amaker leaves, it would only be because of his career path. Frankly, leaving Harvard only puts another test and added risk in the way of his presumed return to Duke.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 511

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-24-17 07:58 AM - Post#228062    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I agree that Georgetown does not make sense for a number of reasons. Coach K is 70 years old with health issues. Amaker is a good age to take over the reins if Coach K retires with the 3-5 years. Why take the risk to go to Georgetown if he is truly a candidate for the Duke job.

Although Harvard looks stacked for the next several years in the IL, there is a question if this team is good enough to play at a very high level, i.e. success at the NCAA Tournament. They took a step back over the last three games of this season. You would think that Coach would have a pretty good read as to their true upside. If he has doubts that may become a factor in his decision making process. He probably knows that next year will be challenging even in the IL if Mason is fully recovered and Much can play.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
03-24-17 08:41 AM - Post#228064    
    In response to bradley

I think the Amaker to Duke hypothesis is not something he would base decisions on today. Coach K is old but you can find stories of his retirement going back at least 5 years and he has never indicated he would step down anytime soon.

Even if he surprised us all with a retirement today Amaker is far from a sure thing and probably not even the top candidate on the list that includes Chris Collins, Bobby Hurley, Jeff Capel, and even Johnny Dawkins.

I don't think TA is making decisions based on anything that may or may not happen at Duke.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
03-24-17 11:17 AM - Post#228069    
    In response to PennFan10

TA is, in part, responsible for the the dramatic rise in talent level throughout the IL over the past few years, coupled with the more generous financial aid now available. Unfortunately, the "rising tide" has favored a few schools more than others. But, even with his star-studded freshmen, TA hasn't demonstrated that he has anything on the Ps or yale. There is little reason IMHO to believe that his stock will rise any farther going forward if he remains at h. In addition, it doesn't appear that, whenever it opens up, TA has any edge on the Dook job. So, that leaves him with the decision to either a) settle into a long, secure tenure in Cambridge at a comfortable, but not eye-popping pay rate or, b) cash in for a few years at another level. The longer he stays at h, the more he "gives up" in big compensation, and the deeper his personal and family ties become in Cambridge. Maybe h will even give him an honorary "h" sweater for his "sacrifice"

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-24-17 12:13 PM - Post#228071    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
But, even with his star-studded freshmen, TA hasn't demonstrated that he has anything on the Ps or yale.



How many other Ivy schools have won five titles in a row besides Harvard under TA?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
Georgetown
03-24-17 12:28 PM - Post#228072    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:
  • Tiger69 Said:
But, even with his star-studded freshmen, TA hasn't demonstrated that he has anything on the Ps or yale.



How many other Ivy schools have won five titles in a row besides Harvard under TA?



One I think. Penn won 6 in a row from 1969-1975 and then won 7 out of 9 (though only 3 in a row in that stretch) from 1998-2006.


Edited by PennFan10 on 03-24-17 12:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Georgetown
03-24-17 12:37 PM - Post#228074    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:


One I think. Penn won 6 in a row from 1969-1975




Ah.... the Chuck Daly years.

Pretty good company for TA to be in.



 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 578

Reg: 11-29-04
03-24-17 12:41 PM - Post#228075    
    In response to Go Green

I tend to agree with Tiger69. He has clearly done a great job at Harvard by being the first mover in taking advantage of a rising tide of IL (and especially) financial aid. He showed creativity in dealing with the IL obstacles to recruiting. I don't say that to diminish him - he did these things spectacularly for a great result.

I'm a bit skeptical about whether he is the right guy to turn around Georgetown, though. Georgetown has a unique set of circumstances. It has advantages of history, the recruiting pull of JT Sr., a pretty good budget, a great home market, and a record of successful pros. It has disadvantages of JT Sr. overshadowing the program, academic requirements, a conference that has been diminished, sub-optimal facilities, and declining brand for young players and HS coaches.

I think Georgetown needs to get lucky on their coaching hire, and have a coach who fires on every cylinder of high major recruiting, game tactics, and coaching. I think their best shot is to find a diamond in the assistant coaching world rather than go with Amaker or Ewing.

I'm a Georgetown fan, BTW.



 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-24-17 12:46 PM - Post#228076    
    In response to Penndemonium

  • Penndemonium Said:
sub-optimal facilities,




Not anymore. The new Thompson Center on campus is an absolute palace.

I think that was a big reason why people expected JTIII to get more time--give him a chance to recruit with the new digs. But now it looks like someone else will show it off to recruits...

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16412

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Georgetown
03-24-17 12:51 PM - Post#228077    
    In response to PennFan10

Because of Ivy rules of ties, Penn won 5 straight from '78-'82. It tied Princeton in both '80 and '81, won the playoff in '80 and lost in '81.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4856

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-24-17 12:52 PM - Post#228078    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Quote:
There is little reason IMHO to believe that his stock will rise any farther going forward if he remains at h.



While I'm not guaranteeing that this current Harvard freshman class will see the second weekend by the time they graduate, I'd argue that there's plenty of reason to believe they could (the second-most productive frosh class as far back as I have records is Cornell's dynasty team). And if Amaker made the second weekend, his stock would likely rise higher.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3143

Reg: 02-04-06
03-24-17 01:15 PM - Post#228080    
    In response to mrjames

I hear Larry Brown is available if they want quick results followed by probation.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
03-24-17 01:27 PM - Post#228081    
    In response to SRP

I'm with Mr James on TA. He brought in an unprecedented recruiting class in the IL with high ceilings. Let's wait and see what he does with that before judging him. TA's legacy is far from set at this point.

 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 141

Age: 36
Reg: 01-08-11
03-24-17 01:30 PM - Post#228082    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
  • Quote:
There is little reason IMHO to believe that his stock will rise any farther going forward if he remains at h.



While I'm not guaranteeing that this current Harvard freshman class will see the second weekend by the time they graduate, I'd argue that there's plenty of reason to believe they could (the second-most productive frosh class as far back as I have records is Cornell's dynasty team). And if Amaker made the second weekend, his stock would likely rise higher.



I agree, they could make the second weekend. They also might never make the first weekend. I think we're agreed that it's going to be difficult to get a second Ivy into the tournament for the next couple of years. And with tough Yale, Princeton and Penn teams - and if the Ivy tournament stays in the Palestra or moves to Jadwin or Payne Whitney......
Harvard might end up as the best team in the league but with less than a 50% chance of seeing the first weekend.


 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 141

Age: 36
Reg: 01-08-11
03-24-17 01:38 PM - Post#228084    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
I'm with Mr James on TA. He brought in an unprecedented recruiting class in the IL with high ceilings. Let's wait and see what he does with that before judging him. TA's legacy is far from set at this point.



That's not what mrjames said. It's very easy to judge Amaker at this point. He has done an amazing job at Harvard.

And his stock could rise even further.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
Georgetown
03-24-17 02:34 PM - Post#228086    
    In response to westphillywarrior

  • westphillywarrior Said:


That's not what mrjames said. It's very easy to judge Amaker at this point. He has done an amazing job at Harvard.

And his stock could rise even further.




I am not at all clear on what you mean here. What did I say that MRj did not say?


Edited by PennFan10 on 03-24-17 02:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
03-24-17 03:54 PM - Post#228095    
    In response to PennFan10

My point is that, although TA has done a remarkable job at h, and I agree that he has, there was a time that at least a few on this board thought that h might run away from the rest of the league. In fact, as GG points out, they did get 5 consecutive titles, although two were ties (P in 2011, and Y in 2015) and one they won as a result of a late season Princeton collapse. Impressive run, but hardly dominance, AND they have since lost the past two years. TA's coaching and the h mystique to recruits may have peaked out. Meanwhile several other teams, with excellent coaching and rising levels of talent, have closed the gap.

So again, this might be the best time financially for TA to bolt or resign himself to a good, but not as lucrative, long time gig in Cambridge.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
03-24-17 04:27 PM - Post#228098    
    In response to Tiger69

That's what I thought you meant. And MrJ said his stock could go higher and the bid for him increase if this unprecedented group of Frosh get him to the second weekend.

I agreed with MrJ by saying let's see how these frosh do as we have never seen this level of talent in the IL.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4856

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-24-17 04:52 PM - Post#228102    
    In response to Tiger69

What really happened was a perfect storm of assistants leaving and some snags with top target recruits that really hit Harvard's recruiting hard in the 2013 and 2014 classes. The recent stability in key recruiting positions has gotten recruiting back on track, but missing on two consecutive classes has to work itself out of the system. Assuming the stability stays, 2018 should be another deep, talented class.

The other thing that can't be understated is how good Princeton and Yale have been recently. It's hard to look dominant over another Top 50 team, no matter how good you are. My presumption is those that believed Harvard would run away from the rest of the league weren't counting on how good the rest of the league would become.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-25-17 06:33 AM - Post#228104    
    In response to mrjames


WaPo this morning says prime candidates are Amaker, Brey, and Smart for Georgetown. Ewing discussed as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017...

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 511

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
03-25-17 06:53 AM - Post#228105    
    In response to mrjames

Harvard's freshmen class is remarkable from a ratings perspective. They are certainly a talented group that will improve over time as they get stronger and more experienced plus the likelihood is that they will be together as a group for four years, barring injuries, and they certainly got considerable playing time in their freshmen year.

With that being said, the round of sweet 16 last evening demonstrated how high the bar is to make it to the round of 16 and beyond. The athleticism and talent level at several of the games, particularly UCLA/Kentucky is crazy good. The speed and quickness of many of the players, including freshmen, is very different than what you see with IL play. Level of play by the power conferences is very strong.

It will be interesting to see how the Harvard 2016-17 class plays out. They will be in the tournament at some point and time, probably two maybe three times, unless the Palestra "bug" hits them along the way.

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 891

Reg: 11-21-04
03-25-17 10:35 AM - Post#228107    
    In response to Go Green

Casual Hoya article on Amaker:
http://www.casualhoya.com/2017/3/24/15051330/ge org...

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-25-17 11:04 AM - Post#228108    
    In response to TigerFan

  • TigerFan Said:


The comments and gifs were funny!

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
03-25-17 11:19 AM - Post#228110    
    In response to TigerFan

Georgetown is living in Never Never Land. After firing a classy guy and good coach, it appears they can't decide whether to go big time (one fan actually suggested Alan Iverson to establish "street cred"!, or continue to be a pseudo Ivy. Good luck, Gtown. Their best chance is Tommy Amaker who has "street cred" as well as a college degree.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
03-25-17 01:23 PM - Post#228117    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
Georgetown is living in Never Never Land.



A big part of the problem has been Villanova's success. Georgetown's fans could stomach it when Syracuse or UConn was winning national championships.

But Nova is another matter...

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4856

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-25-17 07:27 PM - Post#228130    
    In response to Go Green

It is pretty comical, though, to watch Georgetown fans debate whether *they* want *Amaker.*

When you assume, you make... well, you know the rest.

 
TigerFan 
Masters Student
Posts: 891

Reg: 11-21-04
03-27-17 07:19 PM - Post#228243    
    In response to mrjames

Interesting back story on Gtown hoops:

http://deadspin.com/the-power-struggle-at -georgeto...

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 792
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
03-28-17 08:54 AM - Post#228248    
    In response to TigerFan

The feud between Morgan Wooten and John Thompson is legendary (and it's only one of several classic feuds John has perpetuated). It's actually remarkable how JT3 has managed to overcome this handicap.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4856

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
04-03-17 01:44 PM - Post#228480    
    In response to sparman

No surprise here, but the Georgetown job was filled, and it's not Amaker.

That it was Ewing was moderately surprising, maybe. Dude has earned a shot at the top chair.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
04-03-17 02:08 PM - Post#228482    
    In response to mrjames

Any truth to the report that TA turned it down?

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4856

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
04-03-17 02:46 PM - Post#228483    
    In response to PennFan10

All the truths.

 
nycivybball 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 5

Reg: 12-16-16
04-03-17 03:29 PM - Post#228484    
    In response to mrjames

Safe to assume at this point that TA will remain uninterested in any other job openings besides Duke (once Coach K leaves)?

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3143

Reg: 02-04-06
04-03-17 04:48 PM - Post#228488    
    In response to nycivybball

Georgetown will now have a huge advantage in the handshake line, as Ewing can engage from long range and see over the support staff.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9602

Reg: 12-02-04
04-03-17 05:10 PM - Post#228490    
    In response to SRP

St Johns vs Georgetown--Ewing vs Mullin all over again.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 792
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
04-03-17 05:33 PM - Post#228491    
    In response to penn nation

Funny in that some GU grads were telling me Saturday this was about to happen, although I guess a lot of people thought it would.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4856

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
04-03-17 05:37 PM - Post#228492    
    In response to sparman

I don't see Tommy taking Duke either, but I haven't eased everyone into believing that yet, so I'll hold off on making that case for now.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2912

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
04-03-17 06:24 PM - Post#228493    
    In response to mrjames

Aside from the fact that it's far from certain that he'd be offered the Duke job, I also have trouble seeing Amaker taking it. He's in what is probably the perfect job for him, and I'm pretty sure he realizes that. Only a fool walks away from a perfect situation, and Amaker's not a fool.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3291

Reg: 11-23-04
04-03-17 07:12 PM - Post#228495    
    In response to Silver Maple

I thought Ewing might return to The Peoples Republic of Cambridge as Tommy's replacement.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 792
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
04-03-17 08:14 PM - Post#228499    
    In response to Silver Maple

But isn't the conventional critique that he doesn't manage game situations well?

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2912

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
04-03-17 09:30 PM - Post#228501    
    In response to sparman

I didn't say he's a brilliant basketball coach, just that he's not a stupid guy. There's a difference.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 792
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
04-04-17 07:02 AM - Post#228506    
    In response to Silver Maple

I was trying to make a gentle joke about his reputed ability to make decisions in the heat of the moment, not a serious comment.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2912

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
04-04-17 08:43 AM - Post#228512    
    In response to sparman

I read you 5 x 5.

 
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