Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



 Page 4 of 5 « First<2345
Username Post: 2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra        (Topic#20262)
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 515

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
05-16-17 03:09 PM - Post#229392    
    In response to Go Green

There was no mention in the recent announcement as to remaining at the Palestra in Year 2 due to the desire to keep the mens' and womens' teams playing at the same venue. The announcement focused on the exposure and excitement of playing at the Palestra. The announcement talks about looking at other venues for 2019.

Even Robin would have a tough time peddling the concept of staying at the Palestra so that the men and ladies play on the same court.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2082

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: 2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra
05-16-17 03:26 PM - Post#229394    
    In response to palestra38

I'm not for doing away with the sport of football. Hard work and learning team values are important to success in football and most other endeavors in life. But, in this case, I think the Ivies have struck the right balance. HY can have The Game. I still get great satisfaction from beating either one, or Penn or Dartmouth or BCC for that matter. An Ivy Crown means a lot more to me than an NCAA Division AA game against anyone, win or lose. The best rivals are those who have your same values. I realize that a few years ago Penn had reason to believe that it could compete with the top AA programs. But, I believe that the costs to the university in football slots, injuries, time and academic pressure to the players as well as many other factors confirm that the current situation is the best situation, given minor tweaks to maintain reasonable parity within the League. The Ivies have nothing to apologize for. Take that chip off your shoulder and, like Penn Nation, give a few more bucks to the Friends of Penn Football. It will make me enjoy seeing my Tigers kick Penn's butt (something we haven't done much since my college days) even more.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 729

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: 2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra
05-16-17 03:49 PM - Post#229396    
    In response to Tiger69

So, under your position, what is the justification for any Ivy League team in any sport competing in post season play?

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 454

Reg: 10-20-14
05-16-17 03:49 PM - Post#229397    
    In response to bradley

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/c ollege/...

- The league has made it clear that it values having the men's and women's events at the same site. It gives all the participating teams a brighter spotlight, as fans who might watch only men's or women's games can easily watch them all.

"That is definitely a major priority for the tournament," Harris said. "That is something that was a cornerstone part of the decision, that we thought it was wonderful to have our men's and women's tournaments together, and to have a true celebration of Ivy League basketball. To be able to feature the men and women in one place created synergies that were critical to maintain."

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 841

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-16-17 09:00 PM - Post#229405    
    In response to rbg

Wouldn't want any single sex events! Do I understand correctly Dean Khurana?

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3145

Reg: 02-04-06
05-16-17 09:36 PM - Post#229406    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The business about pumping up the women by holding their tournament at the same time as the men is a decision like any other, with costs and benefits. It seems clear to me that the costs outweigh the benefits, not just in terms of venue but in terms of scheduling.

I would love to know how much overlap there is between fans of women's and men's basketball in the Ivies. My suspicion is that the intersection is pretty small and that interest in one's less-preferred gender's games drops to zero if one's own school is not involved.

 
Go Green 
Junior
Posts: 261

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra
05-17-17 06:55 AM - Post#229407    
    In response to rbg

  • rbg Said:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/c ollege/...

- The league has made it clear that it values having the men's and women's events at the same site. It gives all the participating teams a brighter spotlight, as fans who might watch only men's or women's games can easily watch them all.

"That is definitely a major priority for the tournament," Harris said. "That is something that was a cornerstone part of the decision, that we thought it was wonderful to have our men's and women's tournaments together, and to have a true celebration of Ivy League basketball. To be able to feature the men and women in one place created synergies that were critical to maintain."



The league has actually said this many times. There really shouldn't have been a need to repeat it in the latest announcement.

In any event, Happy Birthday bradley from a fellow 5/17 guy!



Edited by Go Green on 05-17-17 07:22 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3530

Reg: 11-22-04
05-17-17 02:03 PM - Post#229419    
    In response to Go Green

GoGreen and RBG, has anyone argued that the league "has said this many times?" Everyone agrees that's what the league has said, it's just many are taking issue with the idea that this is important.

I am fine with the tournament and enjoy it being played in the Palestra. But it's patently unfair to other teams and I recognize it.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 515

Age: 68
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: 2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra
05-17-17 03:15 PM - Post#229430    
    In response to Go Green

Same to you -- H.B.

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 454

Reg: 10-20-14
05-17-17 09:25 PM - Post#229440    
    In response to Jeff2sf

I completely understand that many people feel that combining the two tournaments is not a strong enough reason to prevent having two 8-team tournaments and having each at the top seeded team's arenas, or at neutral sites.

While I, also, enjoyed going to the Palestra to see the Tournament, I agree that having it at the conference's largest and most well known facility is unfair to the other 7 schools.

Since the Executive Director (possibly with the blessings of the 8 presidents and athletic directors) feels strongly about having the men and women tournaments together, the choice appears to be the Palestra or a neutral site. If those are the two choices, I would assume most people would prefer a neutral location.

I am certainly comfortable with the Tournament being held at a neutral location, but that decision may not be as easy as it seems. Since several of the choices mentioned over the last few months (Bridgeport, Mohegan Sun, Westchester) are closer to certain schools, the league will need to find true neutrality or risk complaints from other schools and its fans.

With all that stated, the recent SI article seems to show that most of the coaches are fine with having the Tournament at the Palestra even if there is an advantage to Penn. These comments seems to fall in line with similar statements by Mitch Henderson and Tommy Amaker during the recent Tournament.

It would be interesting to hear what the players think, since they were a driving force in having the Tournament.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
05-17-17 10:04 PM - Post#229441    
    In response to rbg

  • rbg Said:


Since the Executive Director (possibly with the blessings of the 8 presidents and athletic directors) feels strongly about having the men and women tournaments together, the choice appears to be the Palestra or a neutral site. If those are the two choices, I would assume most people would prefer a neutral location.




To be clear, this wasn't an edict from Robin Harris. This was a vote by the stakeholders with the blessing of the coaches (Tommy Amaker leading the charge). They voted for the Palestra over a neutral site. So no, most people (that have a say) don't prefer a neutral site apparently.


 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3530

Reg: 11-22-04
05-18-17 08:20 AM - Post#229458    
    In response to PennFan10

yeah rbg, it seems you basically get it even if we differ in a couple places. I just think a better defense would be "Hey, I get the competitive concerns, but for some reason your schools are voting/empowering Robin to do this."

I think the reason is that if Penn's involved, they make more money and Penn isn't quite good enough yet for it to make the task of beating Penn that hard.

Let's say Yale and Harvard had arenas as big as Princeton. If they got the tournament, I'd be screaming bloody murder - it would be a tournament I wouldn't attend (no way can I drive 5-6 hours) and would make either team who are already too difficult to beat even more difficult. Princeton I would at least justify being able to drive there.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2913

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
05-18-17 08:43 AM - Post#229459    
    In response to Jeff2sf

  • Jeff2sf Said:

I think the reason is that if Penn's involved, they make more money and Penn isn't quite good enough yet for it to make the task of beating Penn that hard.



I'm sure this is part of it. Right now Penn, while improving, still really isn't that good. If Donahue's evil plan succeeds, and Penn becomes one of the top teams in the conference in another few years, the opposing coaches and ADs are unlikely to remain so magnanimous.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1129

Reg: 02-15-15
05-18-17 10:34 AM - Post#229466    
    In response to Silver Maple

That's if Penn improves but not to the top. If they become the best team in the Ivy, presumably everything is settled because the tournament would be at the #1 seed?.....Oh wait, there is the issue of the women's tournament, OK if both Penn's teams are #1 seeds, then the Palestra is fine?....no I suspect the neutral court gremlins will be out in force at that point too....

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2082

Reg: 11-23-04
05-18-17 10:59 AM - Post#229467    
    In response to PennFan10

Best favor Penn can do for us all is to sneak in again at #4 and knock off high RPI League Champ -- presumably H. Then either of the Ps or Y would probably win Tourney/bid and NCAA might have to give H 2nd bid. And, the pressure to move Tourney games to neutral court or home courts of favorites would be undeniable.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 841

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-18-17 11:33 AM - Post#229468    
    In response to Tiger69

If the league wants to make travel reasonable for fans then the Palestra is one of the worst choices. Philly is the league's Southern boundary. Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown and Harvard are all very long drives. A location within the footprint of the league is far more reasonable for travel's sake. NY and CT seem to be at or near the geographic center.



 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9619

Reg: 12-02-04
2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra
05-18-17 11:46 AM - Post#229469    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

We went over this in a previous thread during the past year. People had suggested venues like Westchester County Center, Webster Bank Arena, Barclays Center, a few others that were more centrally located.

Edited by penn nation on 05-18-17 11:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16416

Reg: 11-21-04
05-18-17 12:00 PM - Post#229470    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

If the League is willing to pay to rent any of these venues as opposed to using the Palestra at cost, then it makes sense. I do not believe you are figuring this into your analysis. I would have to think it would range between $20,000 for a minor league arena to over $50,000 (minimum) for something like Barclays. Remember last year at the Palestra there was a lot of resistance to the ticket cost for all but end seats. So unless the League is willing to underwrite a cost well in excess of $100,000 just for arena costs, I don't think the tournament is going to any non-conference site.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 841

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-18-17 12:26 PM - Post#229471    
    In response to palestra38

Good Points. Could the lack of fan interest at higher prices be an argument supporting elimination of the Tournament?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16416

Reg: 11-21-04
05-18-17 12:38 PM - Post#229472    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Not in my mind--the one and only argument against the tournament is that it won't help us get a second team into the NCAA's and it destroys the intrinsic fairness of the 14 game tournament, which to me probably was the only thing left truly reflecting the spirit of the original Ivy Agreement.

If they are to have the tournament, they should lower the prices and fill the building.

 
 Page 4 of 5 « First<2345
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

3082 Views




Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.228 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 10:57 PM
Top