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Username Post: 2018 Ivy Tournament Back At The Palestra        (Topic#20262)
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
12-16-17 05:42 PM - Post#240343    
    In response to Tiger69

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Princeton have the greatest home court advantage in the league? I recall that this stems from the fact that visiting teams' FG percentages are significantly lower than their average.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1091

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-16-17 06:20 PM - Post#240346    
    In response to Silver Maple

Ex-players tell me the Jadwin lighting is very different and hard to adjust to when shooting

 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1033
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
12-16-17 10:08 PM - Post#240366    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Since no else has mentioned this yet, I will note that the schedule for the first day has been changed this year; the men's games will now be played first, at 12:30 and 3, and then the women's games starting at 6. This reduces the advantage in rest the winner of the first women's game had last year, and also allows them to sell a separate package for the women's games only, which I think is a wise idea.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1091

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-16-17 11:34 PM - Post#240369    
    In response to dperry

I wonder if selling separate packages is a good idea. My observation is that the women's games were sparsely attended, with lingering men's game attendees constituting a significant portion of the attendance.

 
Go Green 
Senior
Posts: 385

Age: 46
Reg: 04-22-10
12-18-17 09:47 AM - Post#240442    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD


If there is going to be a year where the women's tournament does comparatively well to the men, this should be it.

Many Ivy women's teams are off to great starts this season. Can't really say the same for the men...

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-18-17 10:14 AM - Post#240446    
    In response to Go Green

That doesn't increase the fan base though. Essentially, if the women's tournament were held separately, it would not sell out the smaller arenas. The stated reason for playing the two together was to bring together fans of all the schools--something that really doesn't happen when you schedule the games as they did last year where the two men's games were separated so there is no chance to all hang out together. There really is no way you will get more than 2000 for the women's games, so they combined them and (in my opinion) charged too much for the side tickets so that even the men didn't sell it out. It was a fun event as a Penn fan who lives in Philly, but they could do the entire thing a lot better, especially if they did not combine the two tournaments.

 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1033
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
12-18-17 10:54 PM - Post#240486    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
I wonder if selling separate packages is a good idea. My observation is that the women's games were sparsely attended, with lingering men's game attendees constituting a significant portion of the attendance.



Well, there was actually only one game that wasn't sparsely attended in the whole thing. Last year, the Penn-Brown women's game started out poorly--worse than a typical regular season game--although it finished well with the folks filing in for the P-P men's game. I watched the first few minutes of the H-Y men's game, and that was pretty poorly attended. I did not stay for the H-Pr women's game, but from the highlights I saw, hardly anyone was there. As we know, the men's final had 3,000 something. The women's final also seemed to draw less than a typical regular season game, although in fairness, the seating policy spread people out so much that it might have seemed smaller than it was. It certainly wasn't much more, though.

My point with the women is that if it's pretty much a friends and family fest anyway, might as well make it convenient and less expensive for them to attend. I actually do agree that it would be better to have it hosted by the first place team each year; it would give them an earned advantage and get them out from under the shadow of the men a bit. The one problem would be if they continue to have the men's tournament at home sites, you would have to figure out how to squish the women in, bit that's doable.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1033
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
12-18-17 11:49 PM - Post#240490    
    In response to dperry

Need to clarify there. . . when the women's winner is the same school that is hosting the men's tournament, they would have to squish it in
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 735

Reg: 10-20-14
12-19-17 10:03 AM - Post#240495    
    In response to dperry

If the post-season was truly all about the players, then there should be two tournaments with each held at the top seed. However, it appears that the IL wants to have the Tournament be about all conference stakeholders. As such, they have decided to have both tournaments at the same time.

If looking for a campus site, one option would be going with the men's #1 seed, since that team's fans will have the greatest chance of attending. If Brown (2,800 seats), Columbia (2,700), Yale (2,500), Harvard (2,200), or Dartmouth (2,100) are the #1 seed, their arenas are probably too small if the league is trying to please more than the #1 men's team and its fans. The league would seem to have an easier time if Cornell (4,500), Princeton (6,800) or Penn (8,700) were the top seed. With regards to Ithaca, hotels (and reasonably priced ones at that) are not easy to come by and many would have to get rooms in the surrounding area. I don't know how things are in Princeton with regards to available rooms.

If there were convenient accommodations around Princeton and the IL wanted to have an on-campus event, it would seem that the league would want to skip the idea of fairness and choose the Palestra or Jadwin.

With regards to neutral sites, I believe that people have looked at numerous locations over the last year or so. Mohegan Sun, Albany, Springfield, Bridgeport, Westchester (NY) and Long Island (NY) come to mind. While there is no ideal place, Mohegan Sun seems to provide the most numerous and convenient non-game related amenities for everyone involved. While being more costly and losing some of the top seed's fans, it might be able to capture a larger number of fans who are looking for a destination site and do not want to travel to the league's two most southern schools.

Last year, 5 schools participated in the 2 tournaments and it was noticeable that there was no presence (outside of a few coaches and administrators) of the other 3 schools. I believe the IL needs to increase the number of teams participating to make it a more inclusive and better attended event.

While ESPN would continue to dictate the Saturday and Sunday schedules, Friday could be used for two #4 vs #5 games. The turnaround time for the winner to play on Saturday would be difficult, but that would give an advantage to the #1 seed that is most likely not playing in its home arena or region. The Friday morning session could continue to be a ILN-televised workout day for the 6 teams that play on Saturday. If the ILN wants to do an additional televised workout day, they could have it on Thursday for the four #4 and 5 seeds.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-19-17 10:23 AM - Post#240498    
    In response to rbg

Since we are all about fairness, why don't we go to the Pro Bowler's Tour format 5 vs 4, then the winner vs 3 then the winner vs 2, then the winner vs 1. Play at home sites until the last 2 games.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
12-19-17 11:24 AM - Post#240506    
    In response to palestra38

Let's take this even further: instead of having the players play basketball, have each team bowl 10 frames vs. their opponent. That would be the first round. The second round would be round-robin nine-ball tournament.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1091

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-19-17 12:10 PM - Post#240512    
    In response to Silver Maple

Plenty of ways to win at Mohegan Sun!
(This is Not a paid advertisement)

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-19-17 12:23 PM - Post#240517    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

My guess is that you will get your wish.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1091

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-19-17 02:25 PM - Post#240531    
    In response to palestra38

Mohegan Sun would be a great venue. Tons of space for Varsity Club/Fan events, could even be in same large event room for mingling and Ivy League Basketball Forum foes can meet and spar in person.

Allows fans mobility in a warm and fun place. Parking is even free with direct buses. I know there are shuttles from the New London ferries and probably the adjacent Amtrak stop as well.

I’m booking my room now!

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
12-19-17 02:37 PM - Post#240532    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The big advantage of holding the tournament at Mohegan Sun is that they could probably run some sort of betting system simulation for the league. In fact, this could replace the basketball. The numbers guys would love this, because it would allow us to avoid playing all those messy games, and instead determine who the winner should be based entirely on what should happen.

 
QHoops 
Junior
Posts: 288

Reg: 12-16-04
12-19-17 02:39 PM - Post#240533    
    In response to Silver Maple


I thought playing the tournament at the Palestra forever is what 'should happen'.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-19-17 02:44 PM - Post#240534    
    In response to Silver Maple

Post of the Year, and as it is Dec. 19, it is likely to win the title.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3424

Reg: 11-23-04
12-19-17 02:49 PM - Post#240536    
    In response to palestra38

Got my vote.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
12-19-17 02:54 PM - Post#240537    
    In response to Old Bear

Thank you. I'm here 'til Thursday. Be sure to tip your waitress.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3492

Reg: 02-04-06
12-19-17 06:50 PM - Post#240577    
    In response to Silver Maple

The cooties aspect of a casino setting will weigh heavily against a place like that. Doesn't fit the branding for the league as expressed in all those repetitive ads on ILDN.

 
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