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Username Post: Your all time Brown 5        (Topic#20384)
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 921

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
07-13-17 10:03 PM - Post#230890    

Go.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 921

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Your all time Brown 5
07-13-17 10:16 PM - Post#230891    
    In response to Bruno

Mine is

PG - only candidates here are Waitkus, Forte and McGonagill. I think I probably go with Forte. But Waitkus was the purest point and McGonagill had the best all around game.

SG - Hunt. Cingiser is my backup.

SF - Spieth. Peter Moss is my backup.

PF - Phil Brown. All 6'5 of him. Ira James is my backup. (All 6'4 of him.)

C - Turner (the 85-86 version). Kuakumensah is my runner up.

The problem with my team is there's no pure theee point shooters. So if I could fill a utility spot I'd go Hobbie as my there point specialist with Brian Lloyd as my sweet shooting backup.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
JBears 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Reg: 06-06-12
07-14-17 04:36 AM - Post#230893    
    In response to Bruno

I just had my first sip of coffee and will have to ponder this a bit more. But I believe I'd go small ball and have:

PG - Forte

SG - Hunt

SF - Cingiser

PF - Arnie Berman - all time scoring leader based on avg. per game - tremendous "scorer"

C - Phil Brown - could jump thru the roof and run the floor





 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2911

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
07-14-17 09:06 AM - Post#230897    
    In response to JBears

Turner must be on that team. He single handedly carried the Brownies to their only title. And he used all the other forwards in the conference like toilet paper that season. Case closed.

 
JBears 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Reg: 06-06-12
Your all time Brown 5
07-15-17 05:15 AM - Post#230928    
    In response to Silver Maple

Turner is probably on my ten man team. But I would not put him ahead of Berman, Brown, or Cingiser. Turner played during a low ebb for the league, as ridiculous escalating costs and no scholarships or aid packages like those today reduced the level of talent significantly.

Berman was the greatest scorer in school history on a per game average. I believe he averaged 25 points per game his Sr year. I recall the weekend he scored 38 points both nights against Cornell and Columbia. One of the top free throw shooters in the country, as well. He also had a strong mid-range game and also scored inside at 6-7 with broad shoulders and strong frame.

Phil Brown was a super talent who lead the team to new heights in league play during a period the league was quite strong. His shot blocking and rebounding could be dominant at times, getting the ball out to the swift Eddie Morris, as well as Vaughn Clark, and Loyde Desvinge on the wings. The most exciting period of Brown hoops ever. Hands down. And if the dunk hadn't been banned due to Lew Alcindor at UCLA, it would have that much more fun.

Cingiser was an strong all-around athlete, three time all-Ivy, and was the schools' all-time leading scorer for years until Berman shattered his record.





Edited by JBears on 07-15-17 05:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
JBears 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Reg: 06-06-12
Your all time Brown 5
07-15-17 07:18 PM - Post#230941    
    In response to JBears

Expending on the top 5 above:

PG - Forte, McGonagill, Waitkus

SG - Hunt, Tyler, Speith

SF - Cingiser, Nuualiitia, Sullivan

PF - Berman, Cedric K

C - Brown, Turner

When looking at the earlier players you have to factor in some additional points. How many is hard to tell. But certainly not a third of their three year total. But a guy like Tyler excelled on the frosh team taking the ball to the hoop aggressively along with a nice jump shot. He continued to develocp and had a great Senior year averaging over 20 points per game and scoring 46 in a win against URI in his last game with his teammates carrying him on their shoulders, last scene heading into the hallway toward the downstairs locker room at Marvel Gym,

One man's list that doesn't include many other worthy candidates.

Edited by JBears on 07-15-17 07:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 921

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Your all time Brown 5
07-16-17 12:02 PM - Post#230945    
    In response to JBears

Sullivan was a great Bear, but he never made a single All-Ivy team. (Although his brother Matt did). I can't quite get there as an all timer.

I consider Nu a 4 or 5. He was great. But is behind Berman, Brown and Turner for me.

Of all of these guys, only Turner was a legitimate center. He was 6'10, true back to the basket presence, albeit really for one spectacular year. Brown for me has to be a 4 - dude was 6'5 at best.

But I tend to agree that the 70s seemed like a great time to be a Brown hoops fan. There's a soundless video somewhere on a Harvard website of the 73-74 season with Brown playing at Harvard (and squeaking out a win), and it's the only real footage I know of that shows what that team was like. Those guys looked like they could play with a lot of teams. And Speedy Morris was no joke.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 921

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Your all time Brown 5
07-16-17 12:04 PM - Post#230946    
    In response to Bruno

Looks like it was 74-75. Here's the site it can be found in:

http://harvard.cloud.pixcel.com/curate/curate#1958...
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
JBears 
Sophomore
Posts: 147

Reg: 06-06-12
07-16-17 06:25 PM - Post#230948    
    In response to Bruno

Bruno, thanks for posting the link. The Phil Brown era was certainly the most exciting time in Brown hoops. As freshman the team went 18 and 2 and most games weren't close. They averaged over 90 points per game. Arnie Berman was wrapping up his record setting career, and the crowds came early to get a seat for both freshman and varsity games, which often were on the same night at 6:00 and 8:00.

The talent level and speed was nothing ever seen before at Marvel Gym. They were getting so popular that TV10 decided to cover the second half of the freshman game when Providence College came to play for the last time at Marvel Gym. It was also Bermans' last game. The Friars came in with Jr guard Ernie D and soph big man Marvin Barnes. The Gym was packed for the freshman game. The Bears put on a great show for TV during the televised second half. That was a sweep of the Friars for Browns' group. Unbelievable.

The team was loaded with talent. Although he didn't' play varsity ball so he could concentrate on baseball, the team even included Bill Allman, who turned out to be the first pick in the '75 MLB draft. Great athlete.

As sophomores this group had a 19 to 2 lead against Providence at the brand new Providence Civic Center. This was the same Friar team that destroyed Lefy Driesell's self-declared "UCLA of the East" Maryland team in the NCAA Eastern Finals. If not for an injury to Barnes in the first half of their Final Four semi-final, they would have beaten Memphis State and had a re-match with UCLA for the Championship. Some feel the way PC was peaking at the end of the year they may have upset the Bruins. I don't think Walton would have shot 21 of 22 against Barnes as he did vs. Larry Kenon.

Anyway, I never heard such a quiet and frustrated PC crowd. They sat in shocked silence until they rained down boos on the heavily favored home team as they left the court trailing the Bears at halftime. Unfortunately, they caught up to the Bears around 46 to 44. Dave Gavitt made sure they didn't let their foot off the peddle the rest of e game. But it was an incredible effort by Gerry Alaimos' young Bears.

I could go on about this group. It was truely the most exciting four years in Brown Basketball history.




 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 921

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
07-17-17 11:26 AM - Post#230956    
    In response to JBears

Thanks for this GREAT posting. Most of us have wondered what that team was like. It's fun to watch the video and get a sense.

I heard that Brown always played Barnes very tough - that Barnes blocked shots and scored a lot, but that Brown scored plenty himself and grabbed boards. To do that at 6'5 just gives you a sense of how remarkable a player he was for the time.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3291

Reg: 11-23-04
07-17-17 02:37 PM - Post#230969    
    In response to Bruno

IMO, Cingiser was the best Brown player by a margin. I would put Forte, Hunt, Turner and Waitkus in the top five. Brown, Berman, Moss, McGonagill and Spieth deserve consideration. The Brown, Morris team in the '70's was the most fun to watch and, perhaps, the best team, although the Turner/Waitkus '86 team was the only Title team, and the Cingiser, Heath, Reed, et.al group in the early '60's was also great. It's hard, if not impossible, to compare teams or players from different decades. No love for Joe Tebo?

 
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