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Username Post: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide        (Topic#20472)
Penn90 
Masters Student
Posts: 472
Penn90
Loc: The District
Reg: 11-22-04
09-05-17 12:12 PM - Post#232636    

http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2017/09/05/penn-mens- bas...

According to the article, 14 Penn undergrads have committed suicide since February 2013.

FOURTEEN.

Maybe Gutmann should stop mugging for the camera and figure out how to resolve this crisis.
Leges sine moribus vanae


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-05-17 01:58 PM - Post#232640    
    In response to Penn90

There is nothing funny to say about this. It is a tragedy that anyone can reach this level of depression. I don't honestly know if anyone can be found at fault. But, all institutions, especially those that have so many creative and highly motivated students as the Ivies, need to have easily accessible mental health professionals for students in need.



 
Streamers 
PhD Student
Posts: 1845
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-05-17 05:21 PM - Post#232646    
    In response to Tiger69

This problem is not unique to Penn. For example, Columbia had 5 such events last year alone and this has been a chronic issue at Cornell for years. That does not make it acceptable in any way, but we have to realize this is more of a societal issue that an institutional one. Penn has considerable resources and likely can do even more than they have been doing, but they cannot solve this completely.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 2911

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-05-17 05:46 PM - Post#232647    
    In response to Streamers

Suicide really needs to be viewed and addressed as a public health issue, particularly among people of high school and college age. I believe Penn is taking this situation seriously, but should always be seeking new ideas and wisdom.

This is just so sad.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 792
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Re: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-05-17 06:04 PM - Post#232648    
    In response to Streamers

I was going to say the same thing.

Having a wife who has taught undergrads, I will say that current students feel greater pressures, from many sources, than we (of a certain generation) did. Not an easily solved problem.

But most immediately, I can only imagine the heartbreak the family must be enduring.



 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2207
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
09-05-17 07:41 PM - Post#232652    
    In response to sparman

This is absolutely heartbreaking for the whole community. Agree this is a serious public health issue and one that I feel we still don't really talk about... my heart goes out to the friends, family and students in general.

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 454

Reg: 10-20-14
09-05-17 08:05 PM - Post#232653    
    In response to Mike Porter

This is another way-too-common tragic event, at Penn, and colleges, in general.

While not the same as clinical depression, Frank Bruni, writing in yesterday's NY Times Review section, discussed the increasing loneliness that effects incoming first-year students. He quotes Dr. Victor Schwarts of the JED Foundation, who heads an organization that works with many schools, including Penn, in dealing with the emotional concerns of students.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/02/opinion/su nday/...

Additionally, Kate Fagan of ESPNw recently released a book about Madison Holleran, a first-year Penn student athlete with the Cross Country team, who took her own life in Center City in January 2014. Fagan originally wrote about Ms. Holleran in January 2015

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/ id/128331...

In her new book, "What Made Maddy Run", Ms. Fagan not only attempts to expand Ms. Holleran's story, but discusses depression and suicide issues in non-student-athletes and student-athletes. She also interviews mental health care professionals,, as well as student and professional suicide prevention advocates.

http://www.bykatefagan.com/what-made-maddy-run/

If anyone knows a person on Penn's campus who is having difficulties, the school's CAPS (Counseling & Psychological Services) may not be a perfect solution, but it may just be the best resource available. The group's number is (215) 898-7021.

In general, if anyone knows someone suffering from anxiety and depression and have suicidal thoughts, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline can be contacted at 1-800-273-8255, or text CONNECT to 741741 from anywhere in the USA, anytime, about any type of crisis.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16407

Reg: 11-21-04
09-05-17 09:14 PM - Post#232655    
    In response to rbg

There have been many good comments here. I just wonder whether the massive change in competitiveness between Penn in the '70s and '80s and now has resulted in a student body that doesn't have other outlets to express anger and depression---such as spectator sports. I think it is not a coincidence that students are not interested in Penn basketball...or Phillies (or Mets/Yankee/Red Sox) baseball or pro football as was the case then. The kind of student who essentially has to work frenetically in high school to attend an Ivy university gets to college already burned out to a certain extent, yet feels tremendous pressure to achieve. That wasn't the case before AP courses (or when there were 2 or 3 of them in senior year at most), SAT tutors, private college guidance counselors and summer pre-college programs. I think that in moving from admitting more rounded students to the highest high school achievers, we select for this problem as well. A lot of the blame, I believe, goes to the common application---the highest achievers now apply to 20 schools or more rather than 3 or 4. Thus, the competitiveness of the application process has increased exponentially. I would like to see the statistics between the competitiveness of the school's admission process and the suicide rate.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3203

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
09-06-17 06:57 AM - Post#232657    
    In response to palestra38

While the change in the student body and other factors may contribute, I don't think it's a primary cause. My guess is that it's a combination of things - perhaps the type of kids who are at our universities are more prone to depression + a different and more stressful environment away from the support system the student grew up with triggers extreme depression.

I don't think this is anything new. I went to Penn in the early '80s and lost one of my floormates to suicide. I never would have guessed he would have committed suicide, he seemed outgoing and happy. We spoke the day before he jumped, I didn't notice anything different with him. It's difficult for a layman to even know what's going on. He wasn't the only one who committed suicide while I was at Penn.


 
Penn90 
Masters Student
Posts: 472
Penn90
Loc: The District
Reg: 11-22-04
09-06-17 10:02 AM - Post#232660    
    In response to TheLine

All good points.

My daughter is just starting to visit colleges and we've noticed a stark contrast between small liberal arts colleges and large research universities, including Penn. The former really seem to give off a vibe of finding yourself, be intellectually curious, etc. The latter institutions all seem a little too big and pushy and, frankly, transactional.

We attended a Penn event for alums in May with an admissions director and were really put off by her emphasis on undergraduate research and innovation as products to push out. It was a really crass presentation and it underscored my growing feeling that Penn needs to ease off its approach to undergraduates as super-achievers who are now global disruptors and world leaders. You can be intellectually curious and not have to create an app or publish research that Penn can claim as its own intellectual property.
Leges sine moribus vanae


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9588

Reg: 12-02-04
09-06-17 11:25 AM - Post#232663    
    In response to Penn90

Agree with the sentiments of the posters in this thread.

My boychicks just began high school yesterday (different school for each child). Here's a brief portion of a long opening day e-mail from one of their schools, which is a private Jewish day school with an excellent academic reputation:

Over the past year, we have also embarked on a process of stepping back and taking stock of students' lived experience in [name of high school]. Students' lives seem to have gotten more frenetic and more pressured, as a result of everything from the changing college application landscape to the force exerted by technology on our lives. This self-reflection has multiple parts, some of which have been underway since last year, and will be implemented for this coming year; and others of which continue as we look to the future. The most significant change that we are contemplating is a revision to the master schedule, to achieve some of our goals of slowing down the pace of students' and teachers' days. We have planned an alternate schedule, and are now assessing whether the tradeoffs inherent in moving from our current schedule to the proposed new one make it worth doing for the 2018-2019 school year.

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 454

Reg: 10-20-14
09-06-17 12:41 PM - Post#232666    
    In response to penn nation

With regards to depression, anxiety, and suicide, many of these individuals do not show signs before they leave home. For those who are affected at an earlier age, many consciously or subconsciously, hide their symptoms and behaviors from those closest to them.

Whether depression and suicide is a growing problem or one that has become more publicly reported, it is important for everyone concerned to be willing to make it a less stigmatized issue. It is necessary for family, friends, teachers, administrators, clergy, and other community members to know the signs and symptoms, and be willing to reach out to those who may need our help. For those that may not be comfortable or experienced enough to deal with someone directly, there are experts and advocates in most communities available to assist.

At Penn, one group that can help is Active Minds. This national student organization was started by a Penn junior in the early 2000s after her brother ended his own life.

http://www.activeminds.org/about/our-story

While I am sure there are students that do thrive in a hyper-competitive environment, most, even those at elite private universities, do not. As a result, parents, students, and schools need to continue working on ways to reduce the pressure for these young adults.

For parents, we need to help students choose the right school(s) for them where they can succeed without pushing themselves to unhealthy extremes. Many times, those schools are not the ones at the top of the US World & News Report rankings.

With regards to Penn's Admissions Department, I understand that there is a constant pressure to decrease acceptance percentage while increasing yield rates. However, the school's push to fill as much of the class as possible in the Early Decision process is not helpful. It forces many students to make a rather quick decision in choosing a school that may not be the one for them. Not only do the financial options improve for many high school students in the Regular Decision process, but the extra few months away from the application frenzy gives most 17 or 18 year old students a little more maturity and perspective on their future.

With regards to extra-curricular clubs, there are many at elite schools, like Penn, that are highly selective. Last fall, the Wharton Council placed new requirements in recruiting for Wharton clubs, in response to feedback from first-years and transfer students. In the spring, the UA and SAC partnered to place requirements on student groups. These results of these requirements need to be evaluated to determine if more changes are needed.

http://www.thedp.com/article/2016/09/new-r ules-for...
http://www.thedp.com/article/2017/03/new-r ules-cha...

I'm sure there are more things to discuss, but I will end my rant for the time being ......

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16407

Reg: 11-21-04
09-06-17 02:30 PM - Post#232669    
    In response to rbg

Speaking of which, nothing turned me off more than seeing Ivy League women in miniskirts and high heels waiting in lines in 50 degree temperature outside sororities to try and impress with their looks and flirtation skills....and most will be rejected.

How did Penn develop such a competitive social atmosphere??? Again, it was nothing at all like that 40 years ago (ouch at that number)....my daughter loved Penn but was amazed (and a little outraged) at the social pressures on the women.

 
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1354

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
09-06-17 03:01 PM - Post#232672    
    In response to palestra38

P38...

We are very different because nothing turns me on more than seeing women in miniskirts and high heels.

That being said, I'd be interested to know where you think these "social pressures on the women" are coming from. Hollywood? The Huffington Post? Their parents? Their peers? Themselves? All of the above? Every year, I have the pleasure and honor to interview applicants to Penn, and every year I am encouraged by the quality of these "kids" who seem not only academically driven but also well grounded and well rounded and are really cool "kids."

Fortunately I do not know the horror of losing a child to suicide, and I pray to God I never do. Do you think this problem is isolated to the pressures inherent in succeeding at an elite institution?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16407

Reg: 11-21-04
Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-06-17 03:18 PM - Post#232673    
    In response to Cvonvorys

What I find sexy and what I find somewhat dehumanizing to college kids may indeed overlap. Remember, though, that these girls are not dressing up for a night out in a club, but rather, are essentially being judged beauty pageant style for admission to a restrictive social club. And who put the pressure on them? Their peers.

Again, my daughter attended Penn and absolutely loved it. But she grew up with Penn as part of her environment and never would have been lost there. She made it a smaller school by her choices. Someone who goes primarily because it was the "best" (i.e., most competitive admission) school to which they were admitted might find it a lot harder to fit in.

And I do believe that the way Penn selects its students in 2017 does result in a student body more prone to suicide. I have no empirical data to support that but it's pretty clear that suicide is far more common now than it was 25-40 years ago and that the competitive pressures are enormously greater in not only academics, but as I noted, social opportunity.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3143

Reg: 02-04-06
09-06-17 03:48 PM - Post#232676    
    In response to palestra38

I just received an email from my department saying that a student (of unknown department) jumped off the parking structure next to our building and died. Everyone who witnessed or heard about it can get counseling, etc.

Depression is a very serious matter, as is suicide. Besides increasing pressures to achieve, etc., there is also a question of whether our young people are raised to be resilient and to keep unhappy things in perspective rather than put huge emotional stakes on narrow notions of success, be they social, academic, etc.. (Not a parent, so I can only go by what I read and what I hear from others.)

 
Penn7277 
PhD Student
Posts: 1165

Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-06-17 04:03 PM - Post#232679    
    In response to SRP

I teach at a much less restrictive and smaller university than Penn, and usually we get a couple of communications per year from the administration telling us that a student died. Usually, it is confirmed that the death resulted from a suicide. This problem is definitely not restricted to schools like Penn. It possibly happens more often at schools like Penn, but it definitely happens at other universities of all types.

I should also add that I have taught there for going on 29 years, and I can say that these events are occurring more frequently in recent years.

Edited by Penn7277 on 09-06-17 04:05 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Streamers 
PhD Student
Posts: 1845
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
09-06-17 05:39 PM - Post#232683    
    In response to Penn90

I too have a daughter who is beginning the college selection process as a HS junior. She also attends a private (Friends) school here in Philly that made substantial changes to its schedule, in part, with the goal of giving the kids a bit more flexibility and reducing stress. Of course, since it is a big change, it is having the opposite effect for time being.

We have begun to tour a variety of colleges and universities and there is no doubt the 'happy bubble' liberal arts colleges, including the highly selective ones, seem quite a bit less intense than Ivies and similar research universities. Swarthmore, for example, has an all pass-fail policy for freshmen.

We have a fair bit of experience with Penn admissions. My older girl went through the process (although she ended up choosing Duke over Penn, in part because she felt it was a better atmosphere) and I was involved with interviewing candidates at one time. I consistently found Penn admissions to be mechanical and impersonal, even for legacies. The reality is that Penn has managed to market and position itself so effectively that it can act this way and still get high yields and low acceptance rates. I agree the common app. has something to do with this, along with the revised financial aid policies.

I think, as a result. Penn is more likely to admit the kind of hyper-competitive high-intensity kid who may not be a great fit and flame out academically and socially - and foster deep depression as a result.

As a parent of a child who stands a good chance of admission should she apply, I will be very wary of considering Penn for her unless If I have any doubt she can take what the place dishes out these days.

 
Penn90 
Masters Student
Posts: 472
Penn90
Loc: The District
Reg: 11-22-04
09-07-17 03:18 PM - Post#232713    
    In response to Streamers

TBH, Streamers, I'd be fine if my daughter didn't apply to Penn at all and went only for the small liberal arts schools.
Leges sine moribus vanae


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3143

Reg: 02-04-06
09-07-17 03:52 PM - Post#232716    
    In response to Penn90

Even discounting my personal prejudice about subject and author, I think that this year-old article has an excellent perspective:
https://origin-www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015...

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2077

Reg: 11-23-04
09-07-17 11:14 PM - Post#232722    
    In response to SRP

Good read. I was amused by the author's hypothetical solution of reserving a quarter of the class for unmotivated or unqualified students to relieve some pressure on the highest achievers. When I was admitted as a "legacy" (not sure if that term was even used then) in 1965, I might have satisfied both categories. If I had been 4 years younger and applied in 1969, I have little doubt that my slot would have been filled by a much more motivated and intelligent young woman. So, while I am selfishly grateful to Princeton for not coeducating until after I was admitted, I am very happy that it did so, thus doubling its potential application pool and raising the bar for aspiring applicants. Princeton is a much finer institution now than when I attended. That said, the stresses present in an environment of so many extraordinarily bright, intelligent and highly motivated people cannot be ignored. But, a challenging liberal arts education among so talented a group of students is the antidote to hubris. Even if I was one of those undergraduates who had to live with the fact that I was not even close to the top quintile of my class, I learned at least that one can be happiest and most fulfilled when surrounded by others as or more intelligent and capable than himself.

 
SteveChop 
Masters Student
Posts: 596

Reg: 07-28-07
09-08-17 10:23 AM - Post#232730    
    In response to Streamers

I'd be curious how this more "relaxed" policy works out at the Friends school attended by your child and the Jewish day school attended by Penn Nation's child if in a few years, fewer students are admitted to Ivies or the most competitive schools after the parents have shelled out a small fortune in tuition at these high schools. Not predicting that as a result but just posing a hypothetical.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9588

Reg: 12-02-04
Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-08-17 11:09 AM - Post#232731    
    In response to SteveChop

That's a great question. I'll tell you that I'm among others in this thread that aren't so keen on sending my kids to Penn anyways for the reasons they stated, among others (even if they got in, and never mind if we could even afford it).

Definitely shelling out a lot of money for Jewish day school tuition. For that one high school with a dual curriculum, my boychick gets picked up by the bus at 7:05, school begins 45 minutes later and ends at 5:30. There are relatively few breaks during the day. If he goes straight home he gets home around 6:30.

But last night, he had JV basketball tryouts (1st cut) which were from 7:00 to 9:00 pm, so he stayed at school and I drove to pick him up. That tryout and the environment in the school and the other high school kids (many of whom had attended the same middle school together) was intimidating, with a lot of good talent.

Now my boychick has basketball talent, so he has a shot of getting through to the second cut (although no gimme). But it's a far cry from his Jewish middle school which was much more relaxed--anyone who wanted to be on the team got on (although truth be told my boychick was among the best players in the school and was captain for the past two years). Boychick #1 has an excellent work ethic and can easily multitask so can handle the pressure and stress but I'd love to see the school culture change.

It's the main reason why boychick #2 is attending a different Jewish high school which, although it also sends its graduates to top schools including Ivies on occasion, is much less pressured, has less homework, anyone who wants to be on the team gets on, etc. Boychick #2 is very very smart (particularly in math, where he's already smarter than his Nation parents) but has executive functioning issues and would totally fall through the cracks and disappear (and probably fail) at boychick #1's school.

In terms of applications to Penn, to the extent there will be a dropoff the real factor is going to be demographics and declining birth rates in this country as opposed to the hypothetical presented, IMHO.

To come back to the original post--this is but one of many, many factors that may be present in any one sad case. It may have played no role whatsoever here, the primary role, or a role among many others.

  • SteveChop Said:
I'd be curious how this more "relaxed" policy works out at the Friends school attended by your child and the Jewish day school attended by Penn Nation's child if in a few years, fewer students are admitted to Ivies or the most competitive schools after the parents have shelled out a small fortune in tuition at these high schools. Not predicting that as a result but just posing a hypothetical.




Edited by penn nation on 09-08-17 11:09 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16407

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-08-17 11:27 AM - Post#232732    
    In response to penn nation

While declining birthrates and tuitions increases are major issues at just about all small liberal arts schools except for the most competitive, they have virtually no effect on the Ivies, where the demand seems to increase exponentially notwithstanding the cost or smaller pool. That is why Penn does what it does. By making itself almost unachievable, it allows it to create a demand which fosters assured tuition income and a body of donors...and that's why neither legacy admissions nor the overuse of early decision is likely to change. It works as a business model. I remember the financial crisis that resulted in the cancellation of Div 1 hockey in '78 (of which I complain regularly here)----it was only the stiffening of standards and competitive admissions that resulted in a huge increase in profitability and endowment.

And although my daughter loved Penn, it was a lot more fun in the '70s.

 
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1354

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
Re: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-08-17 01:58 PM - Post#232738    
    In response to palestra38

I'm not sure where all this kvetching about a Penn education is coming from. If your child prefers University of (fill in the blank) and gets accepted to University of (fill in the blank) and you think your child will do better at University of (fill in the blank), then by all means, eschew a Penn education. Last October on the ride home from Indiana after attending a Notre Dame v Miami football game (Catholics vs. Convicts) my son who's now a junior at Princeton High School said, "Dad... Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to go to Penn. I want to go to Notre Dame." To which I said, "Well, the hard part is getting in... If you get accepted, then mom & dad will pay for it."

I had a great Penn experience, but that doesn't mean it's a good fit for everyone. That being said, my 11-year-old son still wants to go to Penn... With how competitive it is to get accepted, I trust Penn Admissions still smiles on legacies.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 16407

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn Hoops' Student Data Analyst Commits Suicide
09-08-17 04:35 PM - Post#232741    
    In response to Cvonvorys

On this issue, I agree with you. Penn is a great great school. It's not for everyone. My point was that the change in admissions policies almost in all competitive admissions schools has changed the makeup of student bodies such that a greater percentage cannot deal with the pressure of either success or failure. It still is a small percentage that is affected this way. I have 2 kids---one went to Penn and loved it. The other works there now. So does my wife(which got me 75% off on my daughter's tuition). And I am renewing my season tickets. So you won't hear any hate towards Penn from me

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 454

Reg: 10-20-14
09-08-17 04:37 PM - Post#232742    
    In response to Cvonvorys

Application and attendance at more elite private and public schools should involve a young adult's ability to academically, socially and emotionally thrive at these schools.

There are certainly young people who enjoy the challenge of the competitive environments at these schools. There are also a significant number of students who think they can handle it when going through the application process, but find themselves demoralized as they compete for grades, social acceptance, extra-curricular groups, and internships. Within this group, there are those that bounce back, emotionally, over time, but there are some who suffer significant and permanent damage to their psyche. There are also some students who really cannot handle these environments, while still in high school, but feel compelled to apply to, and attend, these schools due to family, school and/or societal pressures.

Since it is difficult for a young adult to be so honest with oneself, and the consequences, in some cases, can be tragic, I wish that parents and high school officials objectively evaluate students and then be honest with them as they go through the process of selecting a university or college. Counting on Admission officials to be more open and honest in presentations, and to be more investigative in their application assessments seems highly unlikely.

With respect to your comment about legacies, Penn is more honest about it, for good or bad, than most schools. They look at parents and grandparents, undergraduate and graduate, when considering legacies. It does provide an advantage, but a student still needs a really strong application. However, the school only considers legacy status during the Early Decision phase. Trying to go through the Regular Decision phase, in many cases, to balance a strong acceptance with a favorable merit scholarship, is not something that Penn Admissions seems to appreciate.

 
UPIA1968 
Masters Student
Posts: 691
UPIA1968
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
09-08-17 08:21 PM - Post#232743    
    In response to rbg

A little perspective from the distant past. Penn in the Sixties was full-bore concentrating on graduate programs to the detriment of of undergraduate education. In my years there were just the quads for dorm, hardly any advisors beyond signing my course choices twice a year. The school was very competitive for grades, B's were hard to get. Finally, I commuted to school on the Subway/El. Oh, I forgot to say I was an Architecture major, a big toughie. School was hard for me.

I had the chance to also go to Bodwoin and would have certainly gotten a much better, individualized undergraduate education. Still I treasure my Penn connection, in part for family reasons, but mainly because it is such a full-service school. The Palestra was the capital of college hoops in those days and the Glee Club in which I sang was just as good then as now. So I guess, each school has its pluses and minuses in every age. It would have been great if I could have had Bowdoin's intimacy and Penn's scale. But that ain't the real world. And anyway Bowdoin is waaaaay north and I wouldn't have seen Larry James, the Mighty Burner be the first relay runner to break 44 seconds in the 440. I should also point out that my girlfriend of these 52 years went to Temple's nursing school. Not that was a real reason to stay in Philly!

 
Streamers 
PhD Student
Posts: 1845
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
09-09-17 10:06 AM - Post#232745    
    In response to SteveChop

  • SteveChop Said:
I'd be curious how this more "relaxed" policy works out at the Friends school attended by your child and the Jewish day school attended by Penn Nation's child if in a few years, fewer students are admitted to Ivies or the most competitive schools after the parents have shelled out a small fortune in tuition at these high schools. Not predicting that as a result but just posing a hypothetical.


I did not want to give the impression in my post that the curriculum at my daughter's high school has become less rigorous. this is more about scheduling flexibility and baking some free time into the school day. They are acutely aware that they have to be protective of their reputation to preserve competitiveness for college admissions. This especially given their relative lack of grade inflation, avoidance of AP courses, and refusal to class ranking. Quakers do not encourage such things ;-) You are correct when you say that the parents who pay the freight at this school pay very close attention to the college admission data in general and Penn admissions in particular.

 
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