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Username Post: 2018-2019 Starters        (Topic#20526)
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32687

Reg: 11-21-04
10-02-17 01:56 PM - Post#233439    
    In response to mrjames

OK, this is a kid who had about 20 mid-major offers, including one from St. Joe's. He put up 18 against Villanova.

We do not have nearly enough information to judge him, other than he was the best recruit since Hicks in terms of his national interest. Led his HS team to a state title. Great athlete---got scholarship offers in football too. He's a good player. But I'm happy to revisit this at the end of the season, since neither of us will convince the other.

 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
10-02-17 02:06 PM - Post#233440    
    In response to mrjames

I'm just pointing out that Woods was OK for a Freshman but didn't have a breakout in the half season he played his Sophomore year. He hasn't played for a season and a half since. PF10 reports he isn't in playing shape yet. I'll be happy if Woods breaks out this year, just not counting on it.

Meanwhile Foreman gets overlooked every single year, yet he gets better every single year. His numbers last year were better than the reality of Woods Freshman year.


 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
10-02-17 02:15 PM - Post#233441    
    In response to palestra38

Well, I don't know that either of us will convince the other of how he will perform this year. I have a general idea (confidence interval) of what people with his 1.5 year demonstrated performance will likely do over the remainder of their careers, but throw in an extended break and who knows what will happen.

When it comes to the past, though, it seems like you're plainly ignoring facts. We can disagree on where he's going, but it's a little surprising that you think it's okay to disagree on where he's been. Like that, by win shares, he was the fifth-most productive player on a Penn team that finished 291st nationally as a freshman and was again the fourth or fifth-most productive player on a team that finished in the 250s nationally (and was about there when he stopped playing). Or that Darnell Foreman's 2016-17 campaign was a slightly better version than Woods' first year-and-a-half in Philly.

Again, we can disagree on how accurately we can predict the future, but it seems to me your baseline is way off - and that's something we can address with fact.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
10-02-17 02:25 PM - Post#233442    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
OK, this is a kid who had about 20 mid-major offers, including one from St. Joe's. He put up 18 against Villanova.





http://boards.basketball-u.com/showtopic.php?tid/1...

This does not seem like the same Antonio Woods. 20 offers? Please point me to a link. It seems like a guy who was intriguing but not a high recruit by any means. The hope was with a focus on basketball we'd get more.

Also, when you're the pg for a Tony Hicks team, it ain't exactly like you have to lift Russell Westbrook's burden.



 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
10-02-17 02:49 PM - Post#233443    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Here's yer link :

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/201 4/antoni...


 
The Quad 
Sophomore
Posts: 137

Reg: 12-16-04
Antonio Woods ratings
10-02-17 02:50 PM - Post#233444    
    In response to Jeff2sf

According to Verbal Commits, his composite was 2.7*, but Scout Rivals had him as 4*
Still I assume, but don't know, that he has been working hard on his game.

https://verbalcommits.com/players/antonio-woods

Antonio Woods

Status On Scholarship at Pennsylvania

Year2014 (SR)

PositionPG

Height6-1

Weight180

HometownCincinnati, OH

High SchoolSummit Country Day School

Profiles
Metric Composite Scout Ri vals ESPN
Profile Profile Scout Riv als ESPN
Star Rating 2.7★ 4★ - -
Overall Rank - NR NR NR
Position PG SG PG PG
Position Rank 51â–¼0 290 NR NR

Rankings Note: Rankings data shown based on latest ESPN Rankings released on 2014-05-18, Scout Rankings released on 2014-05-18, and Rivals Rankings released on 2014-05-18.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
10-02-17 03:06 PM - Post#233445    
    In response to The Quad

wasn't there concern that we might be mixing him up with another Antonio Woods of Charlotte?

Anyway, if you all viewed him as an awesome recruit "the greatest since Tony Hicks" which I'm not sure means anything for a variety of reasons, I'm happy to defer to a faulty memory.

I'm not willing to concede who or what Woods was while here.

 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
10-02-17 03:19 PM - Post#233447    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Nah, I think we're mixing him up with Antonio Woods the football QB.


 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
10-02-17 06:36 PM - Post#233455    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:


That's his FB profile, not BB...

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Antonio Woods ratings
10-02-17 06:42 PM - Post#233456    
    In response to The Quad

  • The Quad Said:
According to Verbal Commits, his composite was 2.7*, but Scout Rivals had him as 4*
Still I assume, but don't know, that he has been working hard on his game.

https://verbalcommits.com/players/antonio-woods

Antonio Woods

Status On Scholarship at Pennsylvania

Year2014 (SR)

PositionPG

Height6-1

Weight180

HometownCincinnati, OH

High SchoolSummit Country Day School

Profiles
Metric Composite Scout Ri vals ESPN
Profile Profile Scout Riv als ESPN
Star Rating 2.7★ 4★ - -
Overall Rank - NR NR NR
Position PG SG PG PG
Position Rank 51â–¼0 290 NR NR

Rankings Note: Rankings data shown based on latest ESPN Rankings released on 2014-05-18, Scout Rankings released on 2014-05-18, and Rivals Rankings released on 2014-05-18.



I liked AWs upside for sure when he was a frosh if he could improve his shooting, but he wasn't 4* on Scout, VC linked to wrong person because I noticed that before.




 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
10-02-17 06:57 PM - Post#233457    
    In response to Mike Porter

And P.S. the stats don't paint a great picture. It really comes down to if AW can improve his shooting % by a lot.

 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
10-02-17 08:01 PM - Post#233459    
    In response to Mike Porter

  • Mike Porter Said:
  • TheLine Said:


That's his FB profile, not BB...


Cuz that's what many of the offers were for.

Woods was a higher regarded FB recruit than BB recruit.


 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3615
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
10-02-17 09:45 PM - Post#233461    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:
  • Mike Porter Said:
  • TheLine Said:


That's his FB profile, not BB...


Cuz that's what many of the offers were for.

Woods was a higher regarded FB recruit than BB recruit.




Oh haha, I didn't realize your original post was semi sarcastic by posting that. My bad!


 
UPIA1968 
PhD Student
Posts: 1117
UPIA1968
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
Re: Starters
10-02-17 10:43 PM - Post#233464    
    In response to Mike Porter

To change the focus here - in order for Penn to contend here's what the starters have to do.

5/4 Brodeur - avoid Sophomore jinx, pass out of double teams, finish more consistently.

5/4/3 Simmons - Hit the boards, score some, limit turnovers. A recruit this highly ranked has got to contribute as a Frosh for the program to thrive.

3/2 Betley - play all year like he did late last year.

2/3 Woods or Williams - hit 3's, make free throws, play exterior D.

1 Goodman - Distribute, make free throws - hit occasional threes.

Major contributors from bench.

Designated shooter - Jones - raise 3 percentage above .4.

2/3 defense Hamilton, Scott or Foreman.

Backup point guard - Silpe

Shot blocker - Jackson

Energy off the bench - Donahue

Put differently: to be good Penn needs:

Consistent scoring/passing from the big man in the Ivies. The Ivies will sag on Brodeur again.

Good play from a frosh or significant front court improvement from incumbent to replace Matt H.

Betley to star all year

Better play at 2 than Woods or Foreman have provided in the past.

Solid point guard play for first time since Zack.

Subs who can bang.

Subs who can shoot.

Barring big injuries, this team should be better. But to be what we want, it must be better at almost every position. Possible enough to pre-season hope. But not enough to send money to Vegas.

I will hazard two optimistic predictions. Sam Jones will thrive as the first shooter off the bench when surround by better talent. Mark Jackson will get meaningful Ivy minutes as a lane clogger. A 7'3" player who is also a good tennis player must have reasonable mobility and coordination. He is also very mature for a Frosh. That counts.



 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
10-02-17 10:48 PM - Post#233465    
    In response to UPIA1968

Simmons is not a 3 and can't play the three. At least not any more than AJ or Max could. He can play 4/5. I believe he will be an excellent rebounder.

 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
2018-2019 Starters
10-03-17 08:41 AM - Post#233466    
    In response to PennFan10

Foreman is a PG, not a 2 and not a defensive specialist. I'd bet on him and Goodman sharing PG responsibility. Woods hasn't played competitive basketball in 1 1/2 years, TBD what he'll contribute but he'll need to win minutes at point. I thought Williams was also a PG but I haven't seen him play. Goodman is the only one of the returning PGs who I can envision sometimes featuring at 2.

Betley is clearly going to be one of the wings. I think competition for the other wing is wide open. I'd suppose Hamilton has the inside track for a defensive presence off the bench, with Jones and/or Donahue playing the role of offensive specialist. I haven't seen Scott play, have only seen his mix tape so have no judgment on how or if he'll fit into the picture immediately.

Brodeur and Rothschild will clearly be in the mix at 4/5. TBD whether they can coexist on the court together. I'd suppose we'll play with an extra wing a lot if they can't. I saw one game Simmons played in the playoffs last year, based on that I strongly concur with PF10's take. He's a pure big and he's not going to be playing at the 3. Would be nice if he can contribute immediately. Jackson hasn't played competitively in 2 years, he's going to be a project. I'd view a Conor Turley-like career path as an optimistic projection for him.



Edited by TheLine on 10-03-17 08:47 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
yoyo 
Senior
Posts: 355

Reg: 03-25-09
10-03-17 11:43 AM - Post#233476    
    In response to TheLine

I cannot wait to get Woods back.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
10-03-17 08:36 PM - Post#233497    
    In response to palestra38

No question Woods was playing ahead of Foreman as a soph. However, their ORATs were actually about the same, and they were asked to do similar things when playing. I think Foreman's improved ORAT last year has a lot to do with Foreman. Of course Woods has the talent to get there, but without that extra year of play, I am not at all confident that is what we'll see.

And note that Woods wasn't Tony Hicks trying to do everything himself. His usage rate was under 20%, so he wasn't even using his share of possessions, let alone taking on extra burden.

As for "talent," as we've discussed before, there are different types of talent that matter for basketball. Being able to put the ball in the basket matters, and it matters a lot. And it isn't just something any one who is "athletic" can learn. To play anything close to the minutes you suggest, he will need to shoot it much better.



 
QuakerShaker 
Freshman
Posts: 59

Loc: West Coast
Reg: 02-04-10
Re: 2018-2019 Starters
11-24-17 02:52 AM - Post#237504    
    In response to QuakerShaker

Amazing predictions here guys! Predicted this one way back
When are we going to put in Solomito?


 
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