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Username Post: Monmouth Game        (Topic#20615)
jkrun80 
Postdoc
Posts: 2013

Age: 59
Reg: 05-07-12
11-10-17 10:48 PM - Post#235883    
    In response to MrPhillie

Looked like another bad call at the end. 10 missed FTs. McKenzie 0-8, no points. Zach had a great game but can't go 2-8 from the line. Let this one get away.

 
BUFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1707
BUFan
Reg: 01-24-06
11-10-17 10:53 PM - Post#235884    
    In response to BUFan

Hate to say it but we are now likely looking at an 0-4 start. If we start 0-4 there would be no need to panic with this schedule, but I hope it doesn't hurt the team's morale.

Hopefully we can pick off one of the next three

 
bison63 
Postdoc
Posts: 2915

Reg: 01-23-06
11-10-17 11:01 PM - Post#235886    
    In response to BUFan

This was one of the winnable games, so the loss really hurts. Ironic that Zach virtually by himself brought us back, yet his foul shooting cost us the game. On the positive side, Kimbal will probably never go “0 for” again.

 
BUFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1707
BUFan
Reg: 01-24-06
11-10-17 11:12 PM - Post#235888    
    In response to bison63

Reminded me a lot of the Rider game in 2005. Except Bettencourt made the three at the end of the game...

 
KenZ 
Postdoc
Posts: 2521
KenZ
Reg: 01-23-06
11-10-17 11:23 PM - Post#235890    
    In response to BUFan

uggh. when you lose by one you can point to a dozen different things that would have made the difference. got to move on and keep working to get better.

 
HuskyColonial 
Masters Student
Posts: 945

Age: 44
Reg: 02-17-12
Monmouth Game
11-10-17 11:47 PM - Post#235892    
    In response to KenZ

Best 0-1 team in the PL. It also makes me puke to lose a game like this considering the competition to come. Move on.

Edited by HuskyColonial on 11-10-17 11:50 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bison7882 
Junior
Posts: 209
Bison7882
Reg: 11-24-13
11-11-17 10:19 AM - Post#235901    
    In response to HuskyColonial

We arrived home from the game late and I was too tired to post my thoughts:

1. A lot's been said about the horrendous FT shooting. What disturbed me was the facial expressions, particularly Zach's, in the second half. You could tell he wasn't confident. I hope this isn't in the players' heads going into three games in which we're definitive underdogs. While I doubt (I hope) we don't shoot sub 50% again, I'm afraid this could be an achilles heel particularly since Zach is the #1 play maker.

2. Another disappointment was that, particularly in the first half, it seemed like no one really wanted to make a play. Maybe I should credit Monmouth's defense more.

3. While I expected to see Sotos play I was surprised how much he was in the game, particularly at critical times in the second half. I was surprised that it was "only" 16 minutes; it seemed like he was in more than that. I like his poise. His trey was huge.

3. Meeks came in off the bench early. He missed his first shot - a layup - which may have been due to nerves. He doesn't seem shy about shooting.

4. I expected to see Newman get a least a few minutes particularly after ND's comments about him earlier this week. We were mauled on the boards in the first half. Monmouth was very physical and I would be interested in how Newman would play if only for a couple of minutes. I also wish Sestina had a few more minutes.

5. OceanFirst Arena is really nice. I was told by someone knowledgeable that it was designed by the same team that designed Sojka. I like Sojka better because it's more intimate. While the seating capacities are almost identical, OceanFirst includes an indoor track around the perimeter and the one end is open - kind of like Kirby. The seating is much steeper; I felt really far removed from the action. One really nice touch is a Varsity Club restaurant/bar that only members can access. I was told that the membership fee is $175/year.

6. Finally, I was impressed with the spirit of the Monmouth fans - particularly the students. The game was well attended and the fans were really into it. They introduced several members of the football team, which is ranked #23 and the otherwise annoying MC (nicknamed "Showboat") talked up today's football game and encouraged attendance. At the end of the game the players and students sang the alma mater and fight song in unison (I'll bet King Rice introduced that; it's a long tradition at UNC). It's a nice touch that I wish Bucknell would adopt. As we walked out of the arena, musicians from the pep band continued to play ad hoc as they walked and there were lots of whooping "Go Hawks". It was a great atmosphere.

 
raymondbucknell 
Junior
Posts: 254

Reg: 02-05-07
11-11-17 10:45 AM - Post#235902    
    In response to Bison7882

Even from the tv feed, you could tell the students were providing a great atmosphere. We could use more of that at Sojka. Missed free throws killed us. Will be at UNC on Wednesday to root for a Bison upset!

 
HuskyColonial 
Masters Student
Posts: 945

Age: 44
Reg: 02-17-12
11-11-17 11:03 AM - Post#235905    
    In response to raymondbucknell

Was Bucknell the better team, free throw notwithstanding? Did anyone see enough to make you believe this team could beat some bigger programs? I couldn’t see the game but this sounds like one we should have won.

 
jkrun80 
Postdoc
Posts: 2013

Age: 59
Reg: 05-07-12
11-11-17 11:03 AM - Post#235906    
    In response to raymondbucknell

I doubt you'll see Zach go 2-8 from the line and Kimball go 0-8 the rest of the season. It's a shame Kimball missed that last 3. The other 7 misses would have been forgiven. I'm still very confident in the talent on this team all the way down the roster.

 
Bison89 
Postdoc
Posts: 4235
Bison89
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
11-11-17 11:18 AM - Post#235907    
    In response to jkrun80

Got back late last night from the game.

1. I would like to thank Old Bison for a great meal. Your family is very nice. I can't wait to return the favor. Thank you!

2. A tale of two halves. This team was not ready to play in the first half. IMO, it is the Head Coach's job to get the players ready to play, but they were not ready.

3. The substitution pattern was strange. Why did the freshman who did not seem to contribute much get so much PT?

4. Conditioning is a concern. Foulland looked winded in the second half and it showed in the second half stats where Quinn dominated him.

5. Free throws . . . don't even get me started . . . UNACCEPTABLE!

6. Brown looked really good when he penetrated, but for some reason, he seemed to get pulled out of the game each time that he looked like he was starting to feel comfortable. (See substitution above.)

The Bison need to learn from this one and love on.

'RAY FOR THE ORANGE AND THE BLUE!


 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 12598

Reg: 01-23-06
11-11-17 11:27 AM - Post#235908    
    In response to Bison7882

Did anyone listen to Birdsong? I am curious if any reason was given about the bizarre subsitution patterns the first 10 minutes:

1. Nate Jones started, even thought Toomer was listed as the starter in Game Notes and other places and even though Toomer successfully started the final 20+ games last year. Jones played 9 minutes in the first half and then zero minutes in the second half.

2. Even though the main subs in the preseason were Moore, Sestina, and Sotos, an entirely different group was used first (except for Sestina).

3. O'Reilly entered the game at 14:08, ahead of Moore and Sotos, even though he didn't even play vs Towson. Had no impact on the game.

4. Meeks entered the game at PF at 14:31 and played almost 5 minutes - playing ahead of Moore.

5. Sotos, even though he has been clearly established as the #1 guard off the bench, didn't enter until about the 11:30 mark - long after O'Reilly.

6. Moore, even though he has clearly been established as the #1 SF/PF off the bench, didn't enter the game until about the 9:30 mark.

7. Despite the early subbing, the minutes for the subs were: Toomer 23 (starters' minutes), Moore 13 (would have been higher had he not sat for such a long period to start the game), Sotos 16 (would have been more had he not sat for such a long period to start the game), Sestina 7 (Thomas and Foulland played big minutes), Meeks 4:30 (despite being the first PF off the bench), and O'Reilly 2 (despite being the first SG off the bench).

It would almost appear that a couple players were being subjected to bench time for some minor disciplinary issue. Who knows if it affected the outcome?

- - - - -

One other comment. The rebounding stats, if not analyzed, look one-sided in favor of Monmouth. The reality, however, is different. Bucknell actually had slightly better rebounding stats but they are skewed due to the large number of Bison missed shots, leading to Monmouth getting a disproportionate amount of defensive rebound opportunities. Here are the percentages of rebounds at the offensive and defensive ends, keeping in mind that the norm at the defensive end is to get about 70% of defensive rebounds:

At Bucknell defensive end: Bison got 22 out of 27 available rebounds = 81.5%.

At Bucknell offensive end: Bison got 10/43 available rebounds = 23.3%


The stats were particularly skewed due to missed FT's, where the defense usually gets the rebound. Monmouth got 7 rebounds off missed FT's, compared to 3 for the Bison. If those rebounds are eliminated from the stats, then the Bison got 19 of 24 (79.2%) at the defensive end, and 10/36 (27.8%) at the offensive end. Viewed in this manner, it appears that Bucknell was the better rebounding team.




 
BUFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1707
BUFan
Reg: 01-24-06
11-11-17 11:31 AM - Post#235909    
    In response to Bison137

Yes. Three players were late for a meeting and were forced to sit the first rotation as discipline

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 12598

Reg: 01-23-06
11-11-17 11:38 AM - Post#235910    
    In response to Bison89

  • Bison89 Said:


6. Brown looked really good when he penetrated, but for some reason, he seemed to get pulled out of the game each time that he looked like he was starting to feel comfortable. (See substitution above.)






Brown played about 29:30 - which is a bit less than normal, but most of the difference was due to foul trouble. He picked up his second foul with 4:34 left in the first half and ND, like the majority of coaches, lifts a player who gets two fouls in the first half. Thus 4:34 of his 10:30 of bench time was due to the foul situation. In the second half, he sat about 3:30, which is normal for him.

Sotos is already a steady PG and will only get better. He obviously doesn't have Brown's experience but he handles the ball really well and can get to the rim. He will definitely be one of the three main subs as the year progresses. Between last night and the Towson game, he has 5 assists vs 1 turnover.




 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 12598

Reg: 01-23-06
11-11-17 11:40 AM - Post#235911    
    In response to BUFan

  • BUFan Said:
Yes. Three players were late for a meeting and were forced to sit the first rotation as discipline





Thanks. That seemed likely, given the strange substitutions. That likely cost Toomer and Moore 5 minutes of playing time, and Sotos 2 minutes. We will never know, but using weaker players over those 12 minutes might have cost them the game.




 
bison63 
Postdoc
Posts: 2915

Reg: 01-23-06
11-11-17 02:51 PM - Post#235932    
    In response to HuskyColonial

IMO Monmouth’s win was no fluke. They are likely better than their preseason ranking which does not account for their frosh. But we had one huge cog missing last night.. Kimbal. If he was anything but a complete zero last night we win. If he had a big game, we win easily. I think he is the key to our season. If Zack and Nana do what Zack and Nana do then a hot Kimbal means we compete with anybody. Otherwise watch out.

 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 12598

Reg: 01-23-06
11-11-17 03:00 PM - Post#235934    
    In response to bison63

  • bison63 Said:
IMO Monmouth’s win was no fluke. They are likely better than their preseason ranking which does not account for their frosh. But we had one huge cog missing last night.. Kimbal. If he was anything but a complete zero last night we win. If he had a big game, we win easily. I think he is the key to our season. If Zack and Nana do what Zack and Nana do then a hot Kimbal means we compete with anybody. Otherwise watch out.




Agree. He had five wide-open three point attempts where he was set and squared to the basket. Missed all of them - and also missed the forced attempt at the end. He hit over 41% of those shots last year. Had he just made one of the five, it is a likely BU win. Add in Zach hitting 2-8 on FT's when he hit about 82% last year, and those are game-changers.




 
MrPhillie 
PhD Student
Posts: 1763
MrPhillie
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
11-11-17 03:46 PM - Post#235940    
    In response to Bison137

FT’s obviously a big part of the loss, but for me, the bigger part was getting nothing out of Kimbal. And speaking of Kimbal, i was watching footage of the team’s visit to a hospital last week and his body language was horrible. It was only a few seconds of video but his facial expression and body language said “Why are we here...I’d rather be anywhere else.” Meanwhile, Stephen Brown was smiling. Just a small thing but i hope Kimbal has his head on straight. He’s always seemed like a good guy.

 
BeckyBison91 
Freshman
Posts: 13

Age: 48
Reg: 05-03-11
11-11-17 04:42 PM - Post#235944    
    In response to bison63

I'm no doctor and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night but I did listen to the game on the radio. During both the pre and post game shows, Kimball was referenced as being injured. Pre-game, Doug said he was going to try to play, would have limited minutes to try to manage "the injury" which was NOT good, etc. He never said what it was, but kept calling it "the injury". During the post game show he asked Coach about the fact that he played so many minutes and Kimball being a real gamer that he must have begged to stay in, etc. Coach took a very long pause and said the he (Coach) needs to not let that happen again. That they had earmarked him for 16-20 mins. total and instead he played 16 in the first half. That he (Coach) needs to take a look at substitution patterns to make sure it doesn't happen again so "the injury" which isn't good, doesn't get worse.

I am paraphrasing, but "the injury" was never identified and they seemed very concerned about it getting worse.
BeckyBison91


 
Bison137 
Professor
Posts: 12598

Reg: 01-23-06
11-11-17 04:44 PM - Post#235945    
    In response to BeckyBison91

Thanks for that info. Hope he is OK going forward.




 
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