Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



Username Post: BYU        (Topic#20666)
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
11-13-17 08:07 AM - Post#236076    

This looks like a different team than last year. Eric Mika is now playing in Italy, and Nick Emery withdrew from the team. I remember that Eric Mika was unstoppable against us, so anyone else would likely be a better matchup.

Is there any word on Gladson?

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: BYU
11-13-17 02:13 PM - Post#236123    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Tigers have caught a break with Nick Emery leaving school -- he hurt them last year. Haws, very good 3 pt shooter is back and he also hurt the Tigers. Bryant, forward, scored 27 pts in first game but Stephens should be able to handle him. Although no early season game is very important, Tigers need to start winning non-conference games against worthy opponents especially at home.

St. Joe's, Saturday night, has lost 2 of their top 4 players to injuries so Tigers may get another break but game is on the road in a tough place Hagan arena.

It seems like Amaker does a better job than Henderson in scheduling some easier games right at the beginning of the season rather than the Tigers going on the road with tough opponents. May be good in the long run but ...

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
11-13-17 03:57 PM - Post#236136    
    In response to bradley

I would like to see some emphasis on rim protection and/or cutting off drives to the basket with help and helping the helper (or a zone). Can't be giving up 56% shooting with the opponent firing from point-blank range as much as Butler did. Whatever they have to do--play Brennan more, get weakside guys to move their feet faster--if that doesn't get corrected it will be a long season.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
Re: BYU
11-13-17 05:01 PM - Post#236142    
    In response to bradley

I disagree. The Tigers don't need to start winning until the Ivy season rolls around. Nor do I believe Henderson tries to schedule "easier" games than anyone else. As poorly as the Tigers played last night it was a two possession game with 3:30 to go. Great effort. That said, there are many questions that must be answered. Can the freshmen contribute? Gladson's status? Will the defense approach what it was? Relying on The Big Three to play 32+ minutes is a recipe for disaster.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: BYU
11-13-17 08:34 PM - Post#236164    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

One statistic jumped out at me from the box score: ZERO offensive rebounds. True, we shot well, but how often does this happen?

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: BYU
11-13-17 10:31 PM - Post#236220    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

If the goal is simply to be one of the top four teams in the IL and win the IL Tournament then I agree that non-conference wins/losses have less importance. If the team goal is to somehow get a NCAA bid irregardless of winning or losing the IL Tournament, it does matter. Additionally, I am sure that the coach and school administration would love nothing more than for Tiger basketball to achieve excellence for many reasons including the recruiting process.

My point about the schedule is that it would be helpful if the Tigers could schedule one or two less challenging games out of the first three or so games each season to let the team get to know each other as well as getting some confidence. Starting at Provo last year and Hinkle Fieldhouse this year is a tough way to come out of the gate. Butler played a lay up game before facing the Tigers -- most teams do including Harvard with MIT.

It is good that Henderson challenges the team but scrimmages and practices are very different than games. Confidence is a good thing to have especially with younger players.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1871

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: BYU
11-13-17 10:39 PM - Post#236226    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

I don't think the Tigers played as poorly as you suggest. They got crushed on the boards, which is nothing new for us in games against he top conferences. But we actually had a higher shooting percentage than Butler did and got the turnovers largely under control in the 2nd half. Reverse those three horrendous calls in the first half (the missed Butler goaltend and two absurd charging calls) and the Tigers could have been leading the game down the stretch. Obviously we need to figure out how to stop the penetration but I am encouraged. Beating BYU would be a nice affirmation that the Tigers have the talent to take a serious run for the Ivy repeat.

 
Eric Von Zipper 
Senior
Posts: 343

Age: 71
Reg: 11-11-17
11-13-17 10:46 PM - Post#236230    
    In response to TigerFan

Some extra foul shooting practice seems in order.

They don't call them free throws for nothing.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
11-15-17 12:14 AM - Post#236360    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

All in all the team played up to my expectations in game 1. Tough match, their court, first game for us...we still were competitive. My hopes are higher for BYU. They have lost as much as we have. Both teams have a game under their belts, but ours was a considerably greater challenge. And, this time we play in Jadwin. It could be tight. But, in order for us to gain some creds, we have to beat a few teams like this. MH has a huge rotation this year as long as the big three stay healthy. I don't think it unrealistic to believe we have a good chance of beating BYU and St Joe's. The latter should be the tougher match. GO TIGERS!

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-15-17 10:10 AM - Post#236370    
    In response to Tiger69

Vegas has the Tigers as a 4 1/2 pt favorite. Let's hope that they are as accurate as the Tiger/Butler odds. Both BYU and St. Joe's game should be competitive on paper but ....

The Ivies have not gotten off to a good start other than the Columbia/Villanova game and to a lesser degree Princeton/Butler. The IL wins so far have also been against inferior competition. It has not been "pretty" basketball based on a few TV games to put it mildly but it is very early in the season.

Tonight and Saturday night should provide information if the Tigers will be a "player".

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
BYU
11-15-17 10:43 AM - Post#236373    
    In response to bradley

I mean, it's a little early five days in to be saying the league got off to a good start or a bad start. If the point is that losing Boudreaux and Mason/Bruner is a bad start, then I agree. But if the point is, aside from those teams' personnel issues, that the league has had a bad start, there's not a lot of evidence there. Nothing has changed at Pomeroy, in terms of a league rank (still 13th). The Ivies are number 1 in the RPI (which is a silly formula but is still using this year's results in an objective way).

I don't think it's accurate to say we've gotten off to a bad start. I'm not thrilled, but I'm also not disappointed.

 
Tiger84 
Senior
Posts: 376

Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
11-15-17 07:55 PM - Post#236454    
    In response to mrjames

Good news—Gladson is dressed and warming up.

Bad news—plenty of good seats still available. 6 minutes to game time and MAYBE 600 people here.

 
Tiger84 
Senior
Posts: 376

Age: 61
Reg: 03-06-17
11-15-17 08:15 PM - Post#236462    
    In response to Tiger84

And now Gladson is out of uniform. No idea what the deal is.

Much looking good off the bench, 5 points at the first TV TO

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-15-17 08:15 PM - Post#236463    
    In response to Tiger84

Brennan and LeBlanc start. Much replaces Brennan has 5 pts. Tigers have enough size but BYU looks powerful.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3988

Reg: 11-23-04
11-15-17 08:20 PM - Post#236465    
    In response to bradley

Where's it on?

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-15-17 08:24 PM - Post#236467    
    In response to Old Bear

Do not know-at game. Competitive so far. BYU blocking sits at rim.

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
11-15-17 08:34 PM - Post#236470    
    In response to Old Bear

Ivy League Network

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-15-17 08:42 PM - Post#236473    
    In response to sparman

Both teams playing tough D. No easy shots. Stephens and Bell cannot get to hoop yet.

 
jeromelh 
Junior
Posts: 202

Age: 81
Reg: 03-30-17
11-15-17 08:51 PM - Post#236475    
    In response to bradley

Anyone know what the story is with Gladson

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
11-15-17 08:56 PM - Post#236478    
    In response to bradley

Frustrating first half. We are not moving the ball well or getting players et up for threes. Too much standing around. I like Morales -- he needs more time on the floor to get the ball moving around for open shots.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-15-17 09:06 PM - Post#236480    
    In response to Tiger69

BYU defense is very good. Pressing D everywhere which makes it tough. Bell is playing out of control. Role players doing ok. I think that it has been a well played defensive struggle. BYU may be a little better but it might come down to the end.

 
Tiger81 
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Tiger81
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-15-17 09:39 PM - Post#236492    
    In response to bradley

Princeton's D and ball movement have suddenly come to life, looking much better after a lot of low-intensity on both ends.

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
11-15-17 09:44 PM - Post#236498    
    In response to Tiger81

How often we get these inopportune cold shooting streaks and killer mistakes?

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
11-15-17 09:48 PM - Post#236500    
    In response to sparman

The most common utterance by radio announcers when Tigers shoot is "he can't quite get it to go".

 
Tiger81 
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Tiger81
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-15-17 09:59 PM - Post#236505    
    In response to sparman

Noah Savage is right: too much "hero ball" by Cannady, the Tigers need more ball movement

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
11-15-17 09:59 PM - Post#236506    
    In response to sparman

Can't watch this game anymore. Too much one on one by us with four other guys essentially useless.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
11-15-17 10:07 PM - Post#236508    
    In response to Tiger69

Yuck. Painful to watch.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
11-15-17 10:10 PM - Post#236509    
    In response to Tiger69

Brennan shooting well when spotted up, but he clearly will not look for the shot off the pick and roll.

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
11-15-17 10:14 PM - Post#236512    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Tigers are almost always competitive against these nationally known teams, but seems like forever since they sealed the deal. Probably forgetting a notable win somewhere, but seems like "close but no cigar" is our motto.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3634

Reg: 02-06-10
BYU
11-15-17 10:14 PM - Post#236513    
    In response to Tiger69

What an ugly loss. The team needs to do some soul searching tonight. Do they want to collapse in fear whenever they face a "name" opponent? Or do they want to win one of these someday? Mitch getting 4 tech FTs at such a crucial time in the game is a low point in his career.

Good defense by both teams for most of the game, but our guys wilted under pressure as usual. It wasn't just the freshmen either. Bell was totally lost -- I was cringing on his behalf. At least Stephens was able to make some kind of contribution via rebounds and late buckets.

I'm sure the guys will get it together against weak opponents and make a run in the Ivy. And after that, another close loss in the tourney -- either conference or NCAA. Same old routine. Hey, at least we finally have a Top 100 recruit on the way!

 
Vonsid 
Sophomore
Posts: 143

Reg: 03-12-16
Re: BYU
11-15-17 10:19 PM - Post#236515    
    In response to gokinsmen

Mitch getting t'ed up was him sending a message to his team that they need to wake the hell up. It was not a low point in his career. He identified that this is how he is going to get this group to start playing and that things are going to be different from this point on.

You also continue to be the most negative person on this message board.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 3634

Reg: 02-06-10
BYU
11-15-17 10:29 PM - Post#236518    
    In response to Vonsid

Turning a 5pt deficit into a 9pt deficit is stupid any way you slice it. Getting not one but TWO techs on the same possession was an embarrassment and really energized BYU and their fan contingent.

No need to be a blind homer. Sometimes guys have to step up -- no more excuses and self-handicapping. To quote Brian Earl: "They just aren't playing hard enough." This team has so much talent but not enough heart...yet. Who will step up and lead?

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: BYU
11-15-17 10:42 PM - Post#236522    
    In response to Vonsid

It does follow a pattern of being close 2 pts with 3 minutes to go non-conference games against good opponents and then fade at the end. Mitch was horse from yelling at the guys at the beginning of the second half to move on offense.

BYU played right in the Tigers face literally every single possession that forced Stephens, Bell and Cannady to drive and the big guy for BYU played very tough at the rim. The Tigers played very well on the defensive end although BYU missed some wide open 3pt especially in the 1st half.

Bottom line is that the Tigers are good but not very good an not as good as last year-- my opinion and I hope that I am wrong. Will they become very good as the season progresses -- question mark. Weisz was missed tonite on the offensive end, passing the ball. I am pretty sure that they will be competitive in the IL and will have to wait for the two game tournament as they are not going to get a bid without winning the goofy IL tournament.

I think that Stephens and Bell will have far more success driving to the basket against IL teams. The reality was that BYU was stronger and tougher --- I thought Mormons were missionaries and kind people.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1871

Reg: 11-21-04
BYU
11-15-17 10:54 PM - Post#236528    
    In response to bradley

Brutal, ugly game. No motion on offense (other than one pretty back door) just a lot of hero ball, which resulted in some terrible turnovers, awful circus shots, and obvious offensive fouls. I think Mitch was as mad at his team as he was the refs. I was in third row and din't have to read lips to know what he was saying. He was frustrated most of the game and seemed ready to blow well before he finally lost it.

The double tech fired Canaday up. On one trip he got his own rebound several times and then leapt in the air to poke a loose ball to a teammate. The team pulled from down 9 to down 3 (I think) and for a moment there was a sense that they could pull this one out. But then the uglies returned.

This was a step back from the Butler game and I am no longer confident that this is a good team. The Tigers need to get this one out of their system (and so do I--ugghhh!).

Edited by TigerFan on 11-15-17 10:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
11-15-17 10:59 PM - Post#236531    
    In response to bradley

Comparisons to last year's team are silly. After a team starts 4-6 and then goes 19-1 the rest of the way you might think no one would jump to conclusions after 2 games. I am not sure what drove Mitch nuts, but the game was over after he was tossed. Relax, Tiger fans, a long way to go....

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
11-15-17 11:02 PM - Post#236533    
    In response to bradley

Frustrating game with the MH four-point giveaway at the crucial moment and the un-Princeton-like offense.

So far, my concerns pre-season have been pretty exactly reflected in the team's play. First-shot defense was spotty, although the defensive rebounding was first-rate. Once again, I think they miss Miller's post presence and Cook and Weisz's tenacity. Even more than last year it seems to me that the Tigers need to tilt a little more to creating turnovers and making opponents uncomfortable. They all have long arms. Why no extended zone?

Offensively, Weisz was really, really important in making the new-style dribble-drive offense not turn into a stand-around-fest. His sharp passes loosened the D even when they were not assists, and players leaned to find gaps where he could hit them. MH supposedly went away from the classic Princeton offense to be less predictable, but I think tonight the Tigers were more predictable. Where is the off-ball screening and cutting, the spacing, the three-man plays? If Bell had finished better at the rim, or some of Cannady's hero plays worked out better (and to be honest I thought some of them were going to go in), it would have been closer, but probably not enough. They have to commit to spreading the floor, cutting, and hitting open guys and then the driving lanes will be open along with the kickouts for threes.

Much looked much better than last time and I really like Schweiger's potential. Brennan wasn't bad but they need to let him play as a stretch four if they want him to be effective offensively as a three-point shooter. Wish I knew what was up with Gladson. And hey, LeBlanc can play basketball pretty well, even if he's no threat for all-Ivy.

 
westcoast 
Senior
Posts: 302

Reg: 03-08-16
11-16-17 01:35 PM - Post#236625    
    In response to SRP

Gladson is recovering from a minor injury, but should be back be within the next couple of games, according to Kyle Franko of the Trentonian. He's been going through warmups, but hasn't been dressing for the actual games so far.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-16-17 02:44 PM - Post#236647    
    In response to westcoast

Gladson was wearing a knee brase in warm ups but he looked ok. Elijah Barnes is also close to being back on the floor. According to someone very close to the program, Barnes got a big thumbs up in preseason.

Henderson and Cannady's post game comments were interesting. Basic theme was good offense/bad defense against Butler and the reverse with BYU. As Coach stated, need to get both parts of the game working in sync. Cougars did hit 25 of 27 free throws which may have been the biggest factor in the game.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
11-16-17 03:08 PM - Post#236657    
    In response to bradley

I was surprised how upbeat they both were. Cannady admitted he needs to drive and then DISH.

I do not understand the hesitation to shoot the 3-ball. Everyone pump-faked, then drove into the teeth of a collapsing defense. Not sure one can effectively dish in that scenario if you drive too deep. Gotta make the defense stay home.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
11-16-17 04:30 PM - Post#236690    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Ugly game. But BYU made us look bad. This group is talented, but stil a work in process. As frustrating as it was to see this game, this is not the time to say the sky is falling. (Leave that one to the Penn fans).

The most glaring problem that I saw was the attempt of both Amir and Devin to try to take the game on his shoulders without using his teammates. Too much one on one, too little ball movement. BYU good D definitely contributed to our problems. But, our big three do not yet have enough confidence in their teammates to look for better alternatives than sucking it up and going to the hoop by themselves. Noble sentiment, lousy strategy. Much and Schwieger showed promise. Brennan, after some early good play, seemed reluctant to shoot when open. And LeBlanc was aggressive and made some nice plays. When/if these guys begin to work together like last year's group, they have the talent to be a very good team. I know that it is not easy for any of us. But, have patience.🐅


 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2262
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: BYU
11-16-17 04:34 PM - Post#236693    
    In response to gokinsmen

  • gokinsmen Said:
Hey, at least we finally have a Top 100 recruit on the way!



I would have thought somewhere in the country there is a 6'10" wide body looking for a 4 star point guard to feed him for the next four years.

*sigh*

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
11-16-17 06:47 PM - Post#236743    
    In response to Tiger69

I'm optimistic that they'll iron out the wrinkles and figure out how to play together. It's a talented group. Part of that is realizing that even in the NBA, teams need to move the ball, move without the ball, and trust one another on offense. Every possession can't be about finding a mismatch and beating your man off the dribble or dominating somebody in the post--you need some easy looks, too. And a team of guys supposedly recruited partly because they had good court vision and passing ability need to cash that in better.

 
jadwinjungle 
Freshman
Posts: 45

Age: 26
Reg: 10-02-17
11-17-17 12:35 AM - Post#236758    
    In response to SRP

At the very least, every team in the "top" of the league has a lot to figure out still. Harvard has struggled against MIT and UMass and lost at Holy Cross tonight. Yale got blown out by Creighton and Wisconsin, and Penn lost 2 skunkers to La Salle and Fairfield.

Our Tigers are struggling, but they're working out these kinks against a really tough schedule. Hopefully it pays off for them in league play, and given last year's turnaround I'm optimistic.

Some things I liked from yesterday:
-LeBlanc was awesome. He knows when to be energetic and when to relax, and he looks like a leader when he's on the court
-Schweiger hit a big 3 to make it 56-54. He fouled Haws on the 3 on the next possession, but that was a big shot for a freshman to take and make.
-Thought the defense looked a lot better than it did against Butler

Big one on Saturday at St. Joe's, another very good team.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
11-17-17 10:42 AM - Post#236769    
    In response to jadwinjungle

Carmody sure has Amaker's number. I think he's beaten Harvard each year he's been there. Funny how a team can play two entirely different ways in just three days. Defense and rebounding much better than Sunday; shooting, TO's and fouls much worse. New group adjusting to each other for sure. We'll go as far as the rookies can take us because I can't imagine The Big Three can play effectively if they are on the floor 35+ minutes every night. Cannady and Bell both reached career highs in minutes Wednesday while Stephens had 35 as well.

 
bradley 
PhD Student
Posts: 1842

Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
11-17-17 02:34 PM - Post#236799    
    In response to jadwinjungle

I agree with your thoughts as to the play of IL teams so far. The quality of play by Ivy teams has been poor based on the "eye" test. I had Harvard winning the league with the presumption that Mason would have a slow recovery, little did I know, but Harvard's play against MIT and UMass was difficult to watch.

Fortunately, they are very young and should get their act together. It would be surprising if they do not believe an excellent team over time based on the so called experts as to evaluating recruits.

Time will tell.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
11-17-17 03:10 PM - Post#236803    
    In response to bradley

Mth-Yr Average Game Score
1 2014/04 61.5
2 2016/03 56.4
3 2017/03 54.2
4 2013/12 53.9
5 2016/12 51.8
6 2015/12 51.8
7 2011/12 51.5
8 2014/12 51.0
9 2014/03 50.5
10 2013/11 49.9
11 2016/01 49.8
12 2011/03 49.2
13 2016/02 48.9
14 2015/03 48.5
15 2015/01 48.2
16 2013/01 47.4
17 2015/02 47.3
18 2014/02 47.2
19 2012/03 47.0
20 2015/11 46.6
21 2017/01 46.0
22 2014/11 45.7
23 2010/11 45.3
24 2017/11 45.1
25 2012/02 44.8
26 2017/02 44.8
27 2013/03 44.4
28 2010/12 44.4
29 2011/02 43.6
30 2013/02 43.5
31 2011/01 43.4
32 2014/01 43.2
33 2012/12 42.5
34 2011/11 41.8
35 2012/01 41.4
36 2016/11 38.7
37 2012/11 35.2

 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

3759 Views




Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.659 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 05:25 AM
Top