TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
Navy
11-16-17 09:36 AM - Post#236550
In response to palestra38
SM, I don't think that's rust. I think that's who Woods is as a player. His one glaring flaw is that he's not good at getting the ball in the hoop. Kind of like Donahue's shot selection flaw - it's great he made a 3 but it looked like an off balance effort about 3 feet outside the arc - or Foreman consistently forcing things when he is better suited for a supporting role.
Caleb Wood's flaw seems to be solved by playing him off the ball. Want to see him do it again against stiffer competition but it was promising.
|
Glenflesk
Freshman
Posts: 67
Loc: Subr Phila
Reg: 11-20-08
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:03 AM - Post#236551
In response to TheLine
I LIKE EDDIE SCOTT !!
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:07 AM - Post#236553
In response to TheLine
Disagree on Woods....he has a myriad of shots inside the lane that go in, those will eventually come. The 3s? Not so sure of that, but the 3 he took from the corner looked good--went in and out.
Agree on Wood---but Wood also looked good in his limited minutes against better competition against LaSalle. And why did anyone ever think he was a PG--he's a pure shooting guard and a pretty good one.
|
Glenflesk
Freshman
Posts: 67
Loc: Subr Phila
Reg: 11-20-08
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:10 AM - Post#236554
In response to palestra38
Sam Jones didn't play. Is he injured or in the dog house?
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:25 AM - Post#236560
In response to Glenflesk
I am not aware of any injury
|
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:27 AM - Post#236562
In response to TheLine
SM, I don't think that's rust. I think that's who Woods is as a player. His one glaring flaw is that he's not good at getting the ball in the hoop. Kind of like Donahue's shot selection flaw - it's great he made a 3 but it looked like an off balance effort about 3 feet outside the arc - or Foreman consistently forcing things when he is better suited for a supporting role.
Disagree on Woods....he has a myriad of shots inside the lane that go in, those will eventually come. The 3s? Not so sure of that, but the 3 he took from the corner looked good--went in and out.
Well, one of you guys is wrong. I hope it's The Line, but I fear it might be P38. We'll know soon enough. If, after 5-6 more games, those shots still aren't going in, I think Antonio will start spending more time on the bench.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:29 AM - Post#236563
In response to Silver Maple
Maybe, but I doubt it. We play better with Antonio in the game IMO and I doubt he will ever get chewed up the way Foreman did against Columbia last year. I think he will play even if he cannot hit the 3. But it is important that Wood keep playing at this level.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:32 AM - Post#236565
In response to Glenflesk
The Wood boys (both Antonio with an S and Caleb without) are players. It was good to see Wood look absolutely confident about his 3 point shot and also good to see a Penn guard physically dominate his opponent.
Let's hold the phone on Caleb Wood for now. I think he'll be good and should be a starter (for the reasons I posted earlier), but when you're 9-for-15 from three, you look more like a player than you will at a long-term run rate.
As for Antonio... I for one don't see it. He'll shoot better at the rim over time (currently 29%, could/should get over 50%), but he's still taking 31% of his shots as 2PT Js in the early going and combined over 50% as 2PT Js and 3PT Js, which he can't really hit.
This is basketball, not football, and physically dominating your opponent means nothing if actually points aren't produced by it. And right now, even with a 5% TO Rate, which won't last, he's producing just 0.88 points per poss.
|
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:33 AM - Post#236566
In response to Glenflesk
Sam Jones didn't play. Is he injured or in the dog house?
My theory is this: the team has three guys who don't do much beyond shooting the 3 (J. Donahue, S. Jones and C. Wood). Whoever's hitting at the highest rate and giving up the least in other aspects of the game is who's going to play. So, in practical terms, that probably means that Wood is going to play the most, Donahue is next, and Jones is going to watch.
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
|
11-16-17 10:34 AM - Post#236567
In response to Silver Maple
The "Wood" boys bring much to the table but also leave some questions.
Antonio is going to be effective going to the basket only if: 1-he can make the occasional 3 to make sure they guard him out there so he can drive, 2-he can actually make a layup (see LaSalle) and 3-He makes his FT's. None of those 3 things has been proved this season but I am hopeful. He has been a beast on defense and I think Goodman's lack of effort on defense is the reason we see more AW than DG.
Caleb's play has been inspiring. His TO rate and bad fit at the PG from last year gave us all a hangover and he was buried on the bench. This off the ball role reminds me of what he is best at and limits his ability to hurt us with his ball handling.
Finally, I think Sam wasn't going to play as long as Caleb is making shots. When Caleb goes cold, we will see Sam. Those two are in there for similar reasons it seems
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
|
11-16-17 10:37 AM - Post#236569
In response to PennFan10
Silver Maple,
I posted before I saw your post about Sam/Caleb/et al.
You said it better.
Mike,
Good color. I think that seems right. There may well be long stretches where we don't see AW in the game. I think Dev Goodman is a better option but he isn't playing defense at a high enough level, which is not an ability thing.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
11-16-17 10:38 AM - Post#236570
In response to PennFan10
Agree with everything PF10 said.
Agree with P38 re: Brodeur/Rothschild defense. It was the key to the game IMO.
Agree with everything Mike said.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 10:44 AM - Post#236571
In response to mrjames
Can't believe I am saying this, but defense is an equal part of the game. All you are doing is reciting the offensive stats---Antonio dominated his opponent yesterday, had 5 rebounds 4 assists and although credited with 1 steal, I believe he got his hands on more. He only took 3 shots, so the sample size is a bit small---he didn't have to do much yesterday, although the one drive he did hit (the only one) was a pretty remarkable shot.
But we'll see---Donahue has said he will play because he brings something that they don't have elsewhere. That is correct. Again, if he hits that layup against LaSalle, I think everyone is talking after this game how surprisingly good Penn is.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
11-16-17 10:53 AM - Post#236573
In response to palestra38
Woods needs to demonstrate he can hit shots at a better rate than he's done his entire career at Penn. The rest of his game doesn't support his lack of a shot. It's as simple as that.
You want a player to throw defensive kudos at? Rothschild. He was active and clogged the passing lanes all night.
|
10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
|
11-16-17 10:55 AM - Post#236574
In response to palestra38
Exactly. That stinking layup is the difference between a lot of optimism and what we have now.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 11:00 AM - Post#236575
In response to palestra38
Actually, defense isn't an equal part of the game. Defense only controls about 1/3 of the variance in outcomes and that's decreasing as more of the game moves further from the rim (where defense has more control).
It's very hard to be a plus-player if you're bad offensively, and those that are successful at it tend to be on teams that don't really need a lot of offense.
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
|
11-16-17 11:08 AM - Post#236577
In response to mrjames
I think AJ is also still adjusting to his new role on offense. He is getting the ball in many of the same spots on offense but two things seem to be happening: 1-Teams are doubling him consistently (we saw this last year in IL play) and he still doesn't seem comfortable with that and 2-he is defending a 4 on the wing more than ever and that is more taxing.
I don't see him on the "perimeter" in this offense any more or less than he was last year. He posts up on almost every possession and it's been tough to get the passes into him. When we do, he is doubled immediately.
I thought he missed a couple of skip passes and cuts when he was doubled. If he becomes a better passer out of the double team I think he will get more opportunities.
That said, I would like to see AJ and Max switch spots on offense and have the ball run through AJ at the top of the key.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 11:20 AM - Post#236579
In response to mrjames
Explain Ben Simmons
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 11:21 AM - Post#236581
In response to palestra38
Not commenting on NBA players.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Navy
11-16-17 11:25 AM - Post#236583
In response to mrjames
I just see AW doing at this level what Simmons does at that--breaking down his opponent, making opportunities for others and playing great defense. You don't have to shoot the 3 to be effective.
|
