SteveDanley
Sophomore
Posts: 102
Age: 39
Reg: 02-25-12
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11-28-17 11:02 AM - Post#238185
In response to SomeGuy
I like staggering minutes -- makes sense to have a couple of shot creators in every lineup. I haven't tried to juggle a rotation enough to keep 3 of 4 players on the court always. Seems to me that foul trouble might make that kind of difficult. But with Betley playing/shooting so well, he's going to play a ton of minutes.
Curious to see how much run these lineups get against Nova.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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11-28-17 11:29 AM - Post#238188
In response to SteveDanley
Curious to see how much run these lineups get against Nova.
Speaking of Nova, Steve, what is the mindset going into a game against a national power like that? I have to think in the back of a player's mind he's thinking, "There's no way we're winning this game." But on the other hand, every player on the court is REALLY competitive (they wouldn't be playing D1 basketball if they weren't) and surely wants to show these Big Shots that he's got some game too.
You played in that tremendous game against Nova at the Palestra (I think it was your senior year.) One of the Nova big men (forget his name) started the game unconscious from three, but Zoller started hitting some shots, Ibby tightened up his on-ball defense and you guys made a tremendous run in the second half. Fell short, but really showed a lot of fight.
As good as Nova was then, they're even better today. What does Donahue tell his guys before a game like this? What do the guys tell themselves?
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1125
Reg: 11-22-04
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Penn Monmouth Report Card
11-28-17 11:52 AM - Post#238190
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Another question for Steve: any take on the FT shooting? it is terrible and was last year as well even though some of these guys can shoot. Is it psychological at this point? Is there a fix or the team is what they is?
Sorry to make this ask steve hour but you are the only former player we have....
Edited by 91Quake on 11-28-17 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-28-17 12:55 PM - Post#238193
In response to 91Quake
When was the last time Penn was even an average free throw shooting team? Seems like forever.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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11-28-17 01:23 PM - Post#238197
In response to 10Q
When was the last time Penn was even an average free throw shooting team? Seems like forever.
2012-13 team was the last time a Penn team averaged over 70% (71.7%) which was good for 97th in the country. Every year since we have been north of 250th in FT%.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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11-28-17 01:40 PM - Post#238198
In response to PennFan10
As I mentioned elsewhere, the current clip of 61% and change is a historic worst. And we've had some pretty poor FT shooting teams.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Penn Monmouth Report Card
11-28-17 02:07 PM - Post#238199
In response to SteveDanley
If Williams isn't really going to be a viable option this season, maybe even SD should think about using him as a point forward in spots. Lord knows he can drive to the hoop and finish.
I'm actually pretty surprised he isn't cleared to play yet -- he was playing 5-on-5 as early as the preseason. It's a lot to ask a freshman point guard coming off a major injury to be a difference maker though. But I'm hopeful -- heard nothing but good things about him from my old coaches in the DC area.
I don't think this is true. I don't think Jelani has participated in any 5 on 5 or other live scrimmage's/Pickup games as he hasn't been cleared by the doctors.
He is practicing with the team but no live drills yet.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Penn Monmouth Report Card
11-28-17 02:23 PM - Post#238200
In response to penn nation
As I mentioned elsewhere, the current clip of 61% and change is a historic worst. And we've had some pretty poor FT shooting teams.
ESPN currently has us ranked #338 out of #351 at 60.3% in 7 games (presumably they did not count the nonDiv I game, where we shot somewhat better).
Dartmouth, by the way, currently at #1 (85.1%).
Edited by penn nation on 11-28-17 02:25 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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11-28-17 02:28 PM - Post#238201
In response to penn nation
As many have already noted, the team will undoubtedly lose some conference games this season at the line. The question is, how many? Put another way, what's the value of devoting significant practice time to FT shooting, bearing that practice time is a precious and scarce resource, and that time devoted to that will have to come at the expense of something else?
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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Re: Penn Monmouth Report Card
11-28-17 02:31 PM - Post#238202
In response to PennFan10
"I don't think this is true. I don't think Jelani has participated in any 5 on 5 or other live scrimmage's/Pickup games as he hasn't been cleared by the doctors."
There's plenty of things I've done that haven't been cleared by the doctors. Steve usually knows what he's talking about.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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11-28-17 02:50 PM - Post#238207
In response to westphillywarrior
I have no doubt Steve is a credible poster. That said, I stand by my statement.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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11-28-17 02:56 PM - Post#238208
In response to PennFan10
So if we've been a bad free throw shooting team through 5 years of players and coaches, the solution escapes me. It's not these players, because past players couldn't shoot either. It's not this coach, because the last coach couldn't coach free throws either. Is it all just a coincidence? Is it the Palestra? Do opposing teams shoot relatively badly when they come to Penn?
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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11-28-17 06:28 PM - Post#238216
In response to Silver Maple
While you are right SM that practice time is a precious resource, foul shooting is something that one CAN practice without it being part of a formal practice. I am well aware that these guys have pretty tight schedules (being a D-I athlete is no picnic), but I've got to believe that one(s) who want to improve this skill can find SOME time to practice it.
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11Quakers
Sophomore
Posts: 123
Age: 63
Reg: 02-25-12
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11-28-17 07:21 PM - Post#238223
In response to TheLine
Steve,
Thanks for the report card. I have missed having someone do these and your knowledge of the game makes them creditable.
Your the best, please keep doing them.
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SteveDanley
Sophomore
Posts: 102
Age: 39
Reg: 02-25-12
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11-29-17 12:04 AM - Post#238249
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Curious to see how much run these lineups get against Nova.
Speaking of Nova, Steve, what is the mindset going into a game against a national power like that? I have to think in the back of a player's mind he's thinking, "There's no way we're winning this game." But on the other hand, every player on the court is REALLY competitive (they wouldn't be playing D1 basketball if they weren't) and surely wants to show these Big Shots that he's got some game too.
You played in that tremendous game against Nova at the Palestra (I think it was your senior year.) One of the Nova big men (forget his name) started the game unconscious from three, but Zoller started hitting some shots, Ibby tightened up his on-ball defense and you guys made a tremendous run in the second half. Fell short, but really showed a lot of fight.
As good as Nova was then, they're even better today. What does Donahue tell his guys before a game like this? What do the guys tell themselves?
Big time games are one of the biggest recruiting pitches. I never found there was too much to say at this point -- you know the big games when they come, and you're almost too fired up. Dunph tended to go through the rituals (pre-game etc) to keep us grounded. There are fewer rah-rah speeches than you think (though more being yelled at for not boxing out).
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't -- the Nova games were fun. We had St. Joes when they were #1 overall my freshman year. UNC at #1. Duke at #1. Kept most of them close (UNC the exception). Never quite picked one off.
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SteveDanley
Sophomore
Posts: 102
Age: 39
Reg: 02-25-12
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Penn Monmouth Report Card
11-29-17 12:06 AM - Post#238250
In response to PennFan10
I have no doubt Steve is a credible poster. That said, I stand by my statement.
There's a chance I'm wrong here -- sometimes the fresh faces get confusing when the guys play pickup. But made a mental note one Saturday am when I thought he was out there. Hopefully there's been no setback and I'm just misremembering.
My guess is they're being really cautious with him, and rightfully so.
Edited by SteveDanley on 11-29-17 12:21 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SteveDanley
Sophomore
Posts: 102
Age: 39
Reg: 02-25-12
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Re: Penn Monmouth Report Card
11-29-17 12:13 AM - Post#238251
In response to 91Quake
Another question for Steve: any take on the FT shooting? it is terrible and was last year as well even though some of these guys can shoot. Is it psychological at this point? Is there a fix or the team is what they is?
Sorry to make this ask steve hour but you are the only former player we have....
I wish I had an answer for the FT stuff. It doesn't make any sense to me either.
There's some ritual to this too -- coaches have different responses to poor free throwing shooting. Some add more volume shooting to practice, some raise the stakes by making you run after misses (in practice or games). But mostly, it fixes itself.
My best guess is that it is mostly random, and will normalize somewhat (that doesn't answer the year-to-year problems) -- I think the guys are fine shooters, and there's no one whose form is atrocious.
My second best guess is that it has to do with how often (or not) guys get there. I always felt like the 1st free throw of the day was the toughest, then you could settle into a rhythm. Maybe our shooters don't get there that often / are cold? And the bigs who get there more often are in that 60-70 range anyway when it normalizes?
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SteveDanley
Sophomore
Posts: 102
Age: 39
Reg: 02-25-12
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11-29-17 12:13 AM - Post#238252
In response to 11Quakers
Steve,
Thanks for the report card. I have missed having someone do these and your knowledge of the game makes them creditable.
Your the best, please keep doing them.
Thanks, but that wasn't me! I've just been in the thread quite a bit.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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11-29-17 12:58 AM - Post#238253
In response to SteveDanley
You'll all want to be here next week for another exciting episode of:
****Ask Steve Danley!****
Steve will opine on Ryan Betley's tee shirt, several players' tattoos, why hand-checking is for sissies, the infield fly rule and more. Be sure to tune in!
(Thanks Steve.)
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1896
Reg: 11-29-04
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11-29-17 04:01 AM - Post#238257
In response to Silver Maple
No one besides Betley shoots over 70% or has ever shot them well. We start two small PG's who can't shoot a FT. Who are we going to trust with possession of the ball in a tight game with a small lead? That is imperative for a PG.
I've noticed that Woods has a strange grip on the ball (he seems to use more palm than average) and also doesn't follow through with his wrist (My daughter calls it "reaching into the cookie jar") the way he does when shooting a 3. There's something weird about his release - he looks like he's lobbing it for an alley-oop as opposed to making a laser targeted shot. Foreman's FTs are flat. His cadence makes the shot sling a bit harder as opposed to smooth acceleration through release. His form works better for him in the midrange game as many of the shots are fading or spinning away from defenders. Falling away adds arc to his shots.
BTW, I have no basketball knowledge - just throwing stuff out there for conversation. Hoping everyone on the team takes the time to solve their individual problems, whether mechanical or mental.
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